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>> hello everybody. Apologies on the delay. We are doing some rearranging of bodies. I want to welcome everyone to our panel, or to our discussion about making room for F artists -- for death artists -- for deaf artists. Which me is -- with me is -- Dr. Erin and Tyrone from -- A little bit about what this panel is hoping to cover today and why I brought this together. I did not have a lot of connection to the deaf community until a couple of years ago where I codirected a production that was half in ASL and half in spoken English. What became clear to me was the deep oral tradition the theater has and the ways we unknowingly do our practices, the way we normally run the theater. I'm talking about things like talking on a headset during tech. You can't really sign or see anybody. What I'm hoping to unpack a little today are the ways we have seen successful collaborations and what we can do to change our practicing models to make the more fruitful in the future. If I could have each of our panelists share a little bit about your experience in the theater and how you got here and some of the challenges you face and the work that you do. Who wants to begin? 

>> I have been involved in theater since 1999. I started at the Arena stage and moved out to California, moved back to D.C.. I'm not the first artist with dog and pony D.C., but we have seen more collaboration since I began working within that community. Glad to be here, thanks. 

>> hello. I am Aaron. I work at the national theater for the deaf in New York. I have been involved with the theater department since the 90's. I have worked with community theater and started when I was 5.5 years old and have been in theater ever since. 

>> I have been doing this for 25 years. Not myself but the company has been around for 25 years. 

>> my name is -- I just graduated as a theater major. I have been involved in a number of different productions. My goal is to have a better collaboration with the deaf producers in the future. . 

>> I had the pleasure of being a theater practitioner here in Washington DC at a number of large regional theaters for the past 17 years. I first met Ty on the same production of the miracle worker, as well as another number of deaths hard of hearing and artists that are signers and interpreters. That was my first contact the deaf community. 

>> Spring awakening at Deaf West Theatre was a huge hit. My first question goes to DJ as the artistic director and producer of that production. What are some of the successes and challenges you encountered when bringing a death production -- a death ♪ ♪ ♪ -- a deaf production. 

>> deaf West has been around for 25 years. They have developed a process to make sure communication is successful. 

>> I'm referring specifically to what production -- did you have hearing technicians? I imagine when you went to Broadway the crew was -- did you have to spend extra time? Was the tech process longer because of communication? 

>> in Los Angeles we did have deaf technicians. We did face some issues because they are very established. There was one woman we had doing hair and makeup, but we couldn't have that in our show, so they were all hearing technicians. We also had to work with interpreters backstage. Interpreters for makeup and hair, stage management , and they were also learning on the job as well. It wasn't a perfect solution but we were able to adapt to the setting. We did communicate that our primary goal is communication access. Sometimes it worked out that people could adjust to one another by using smartphones, but there are several different ways to solve that issue. 

>> do you think the primary concern was about the language barrier? I think that is something we -- very few of us know ASL. Beyond that did you have access to backstage? I'm trying to figure out how institutionally theaters can make backstage more friendly with regards to visibility. 

>> I think it is mostly important to view it as a process. It needs to become easier for people working on the show to learn sign language as well. We have some stage management that did not have any skills, but by the end they became rather fluid in the language. That is the number one requirement. The willingness. 

>> it happens often. First you envision the problem and recognize the issues, then reach out and look at the different resources we have. It very important that everything starts with a design. And the communication between the production people and everybody involved. 

>> and I will say the key is having the right attitude. , attitude is very important. It is important everyone working together will benefit from this experience. We did have TV screens placed in different locations that were very visible. We do use hearing and deaf people in every asset to put this production together. There are a total of nine schools altogether including our 18. Teaching little gestures and teaching science. Once they start to work together , after three days everything started to work itself out. As long as you have the right heart and the right mindset. 

>> in regards to communication there is a technical aspect as well. We will have TV monitors that have captions, we will have a caption or. As well as onstage we have cue lights, they are in the wings and they are also set on the balcony toward the back of the house. The actors know what the use our -- the cues are. 

>> sometimes the production -- sometimes we have the queue with physical actions. For lighting and sound and communication between reduction and crew, it is important everything remains visual. It is often a big challenge to work out, both languages and culture. And it takes time to meld them altogether. In the end we make it all work out. 

>> you had shared in one of the ASL sessions last time, a capital fringe coming up? We assume the stage manager -- I actually don't know where to start, how are you running the show visually? 

>> so far we have adapted the cues to be visual. With the language barrier, with two characters we have one that only speaks English, one that only speak Spanish. The play itself has language barriers and it. It is interesting how we all learning as part of that development. The director himself is an interpreter but there are times when the director isn't going to be there and it is going to be with two different actors who don't know how to sign. We send out texts, e-mails. We have to remind actors not to do change on their body because then they will miss a cue. Our experience has been adapting as we go. This is one of the smaller shows. If we had music Incorporated it might be a different story. It depends on what technology we have available. If you are working in another location that has more advanced technology that has interesting resources to be taken advantage of. Find a way to communicate, that is really the key. 

>> just additionally, I know many of you are figuring out how in the world do I communicate with deaf people? We communicate with you. Just ask us. Let us take the lead and we will lead you through this process. 

>> another tip I think will be helpful is to have a deaf member of the production team or someone who is deaf from the beginning, for example with Howie. You brought him on as a codirector because you recognize that need from the beginning. You don't want to start getting into the production to realize too late it is -- to realize it is too late to bring someone in. 

>> I notice more and more as I work with hearing and deaf companies it's not like you have a design then you start adding people in. You start adding people in from the beginning. Both perspectives at the table, starting from the beginning. That is a great way to start that process, by adding it later on. You always have some complaints. Then the designers are lucky now you are ruining my original lighting design. If you start with that initial production meeting, just the concept and how we may be able to make it happen, it is a completely different collaborative process that becomes more positive and more smooth. That add-on concept makes it more difficult. 

>> one example I experienced before was they designed the lighting without even taking into consideration the cues that would have been appropriate for me. It would have saved a lot of time if they worked with me in the beginning instead of doing it after the fact. We lost half a day of tech just because of that. 

>> I want to touch on something, this idea of hearing people being it -- being afraid to communicate with us. Something we discussed is this inherent discomfort or nervousness that makes us feel a afraid to approach our deaf colleagues. Dissolving a little bit of that membrane. 

>> I was going to say dog and pony D.C. has done a wonderful job of being awkward and embarrassed. It is fascinating listening to my fellow panelists talking about, we shouldn't just add in . The show a few years ago, there was no intention of having a deaf performer in the show. We said we will figure it out, and I'm so glad we figured it out, but we are still in the process of figuring out what that means to work with deaf artists. There is so much packed into hearing privilege and the odd- ism that is built into the dominant culture of our world. I think we can say we really take it for granted. When confronted with that and when we start, and I really speak from a hearing person's perspective and to all the hearing people in the room, that we start taking that for granted and start getting nervous when we are confronted with, oh my gosh I don't want to embarrass myself and I don't want to insult anyone. Deaf people have been communicating in our culture for so long that I think that basic learning, that flexibility, that gestural Commit case and culture means. We have tried to look at our own learning process and be transparent with it, and to share it with artists that we are interacting with in our us some balls that in our in some balls. -- in our ensembles. I don't want to turn it into something it is not. Just knowing we can always asset share with one another and not always have to rely on our deaf colleagues. We have colleagues who have been a wonderful resource to us throughout this journey. I don't know that answered your question. 

>> I do want to piggyback on what you are saying. 

>> thank you. 

>> so you are saying something to keep in mind, that just being involved changed dog and pony D.C. entire community. The company started to pay attention to things. Things that you just think that is the way we communicate, that is the process and what we do. Deaf people pay far more attention to appropriate turn taking. There are a lot of advantages to bringing in a deaf artist. 

>> I would add onto that by saying if sometimes you feel uncomfortable, it may be because you are on autopilot. And you tend to start with your mouths and tongues and when you meet a deaf person you end up being a little shocked in the moment. You don't tend to use those. You feel like you have to shift back into fourth year now. You always think of starting in the first year, which is your mouth. Think about if you're able to change what you do and use more gestures, and use your eyes more. It feels like it is not appropriate to do it and it is different. It changes the company, it changes the feel of the group, it changes the dynamic and changes it for the better. You get more expressive actors and it is quite the benefit. 

>> this is an theater, this isn't radio, you should be used to this idea. 

>> one thing I would like to add on is the role of the interpreters in the process. Interpreters are allies and friends, but we can't rely on them wholly to be the leaders in the process. We need deaf people and hearing people to leave the process. Their role is to facilitate communication. Hearing that a lot of people have yet you that interpreters are the people you can go to to ask questions about sign language, but that leads to other issues. 

>> precisely. 

>> I know it is a very long and complicated relationship between the hearing and the deaf with the interpreter being the mediator between that, but just a few points who are encountering our interpreting staff here , maybe one or two or three bullet points. 

>> for the ASL pickups, which is a sort of hybrid sign language game night for an hour at a bar, it is important we hired deaf people to be our instructors. The American sign language is the language. That is the language of the deaf community. That is where it becomes appropriate in that situation, I maybe not saying this correctly. Our colleague , they are all S and they are the ones -- all deaths and the ones teaching the ASL pickups. -- they are all deaf and the ones teaching the ASL pickups. 

>> when you need a deaf person, the basic rule is don't run away. Just stay. Stay and interact. It will all be OK. That is one rule of engagement. 

>> from the perspective of a hearing company, if you are cast actors you can't be prepared to advocate for themselves. They want to come, they want to work. They shouldn't be expected to be their own advocates for access, because they need to be focused on their work as an actor. It is important for the company to provide this support system. In our shows we have an ASL master that will coach the actor in a process of translation from English to the performed ASL. They will sit and watch the runs to mixture it is an inclusive process. 

>> the same with the association with the union. It is the same equity, same kind of process. 

>> we are like moths to the light. You put us in the dark in the back and we try but it won't help. 

>> how does the tech process go when it is backstage? I feel like that is something we often struggle with. We are in tech, we are backstage, and we have a stage manager that is of hearing. We had her live streaming on face time. One hearing and one deaf. She would also be signaling on face time with the deaf ASM backstage. I don't know how to facilitate better communication for technicians or actors. I don't know if that is something you live with as part of the leader and tech process. 

>> at Deaf West we use monitors for communication. Most days people use I messages on their smart phones to communicate with one another. It has been working for us and it is a convenient solution. 

>> we have old technology, just a blue light in the back. There is a person responsible for queuing entrances. 

>> it is very simple, it is not that hard. And the number one thing is to have an open attitude right from the beginning. 

>> doesn't cost much money involved in those changes. They can be a little pricey, but it is really the one thing. Everyone has a smartphone in the workshop, they talk about 95% of the people having smart phones these days. And using something visual. Really smart, cheap, human interaction. 

>> let me expand on that just a bit. When we talk about this excessive idea, this awkward kind of thing, we just signed to one another. It would be an advantage to all of you and your companies to learn some sign, just to craft -- just to prep for when you have deaf artists entering your company. 

>> I agree. They will start to assign others to communicate, even though they are both of hearing. 

>> even though we have a number of cast members who are hearing, we made eye -- we made ASL the primary language. That was challenging. 

>> I have a question, as an educator what can teaching artists impart onto the next generation of hearing leaders, performers, producers who are coming up. I'm excited to see more collaboration. What can the new generation of hearing artists, what can we at least learn or know? 

>> what is happening now is you have people who are meeting us after school, after trainings, after their initial exposure to workshops and trainings and the like. What really needs to happen is in that training they are being introduced to what it means to have these individuals show up as part of their process and part of their work, and not something that happens after the training experience but in the middle of the process itself. Designing lights, designing sets, part of the acting process at the same time working with these individuals. Afterward when it is hard to go back and have that be part of the learning experience. When you are working with a diverse cast and crew , deaf people are part of that diverse network. It is important to have them access on the early onset. 

>> another thing I will add on, we also have technicians and designers. People who are enthusiastic to get involved but don't have many opportunities to do so. It is important to have that accessibility ready end be considerate of potential deaf artists involved. 

>> it is very hard to get into those circles or those special schools. There are several barriers that are very difficult. It doesn't matter if they are talented unique individuals. There are requirements that create additional barriers. It would help a lot with axis and having some form of certification that would help the work. 

>> I think we have 10 minutes or so, if there are any questions for our panel. No? the question. 

>> hello, I'm from London. I run a program called Unlimited for disabled artists. I just wanted to mention there is a new decree in Scotland of British sign language performance which has been doing well. I don't know too much about it but it may be something interesting to look at. I am interested in the work that you do, whether it is inclusive . And by audiences, what groups do you reach? Who comes to see the work? By sectors, what barrier is there? What kind of work reaches the mainstream and why? I would like to know more about how the work is received. 

>> I will speak to that. Deaf West has been around for 25 years. Who knows and comes to expect American sign language blended together in a unique way. We have a variety of approaches and people are interested in seeing that to include deaf and hearing artists together. That is part of our process. We can't just have the one production, we have to continue to grow our audience and keep them coming back. 

>> often with new audiences. With hearing and deaf actors blended in the same performance you have both link which is happening at the same time. You said you were from London? Think about the different parts of Europe and Asia. Deaf theaters don't normally use sign language like we would use it. We have a different style and sometimes people may ask why you are signing so much. Seems like a lot of dialogue. It can be more physical and gestural then other countries. That is their solution for inviting a diverse audience into the experience. There is a cultural perspective to how theater is. There are different types. There are styles and different issues that come up at the time. 

>> in general you can expect to show up at a theater where you have a deck -- have a deaf actor and you will have access. Keep that in mind, a little food for thought. 

>> we did marketing research for spring awakening on Broadway. We realize the number one people destined for one reason people come to see the show is to see sign language. 

>> I would say we are very new to producing work that is interpreted and the work, when we have deaf actors, the two productions that have deaf actors in them, one of which we have done multiple runs of. We have to be building the relationship that we are a theater that can be trusted, that the work is interesting, let alone that we don't do your typical shows, so there is that. Certainly it is about building the trust and reputation and being authentic, being present. Demonstrating we are in it for the long haul and it is part of our artistic mission. We are providing quality and open access to the production as a whole. At this point we are not necessarily exploring themes in the work. I don't want to put you on the spot, but when we did -- when he came into toast, we didn't market there was a deaf artist in there, which he and I had a discussion of how -- discussion about. There was this interesting occurrence when he would start the show. He was the first person to speak in the show. There was this 

>> sort of happening moment? Our audiences were quite small for that iteration. It increased the second time and it continues to increase over time. But you felt it was refreshing to not be in a role that was about being deaf, yes? 

>> you are exactly right. It was a nice not to have to justify or explain myself, to just fall into the role and do it I do. There weren't any issues. It's not difficult. 

>> one question in the back and one here. This is tricky. 

>> do you feel like you burn -- from the past because of your work or because you are artists do feel like that hinders you? 

>> the question is for our deaf stage manager and whether they are able to garner respect because of their work or because she is deaf. 

>> to be honest it was strange. There was that fear and overcoming that fear. If I didn't show up on time, if I skimped out and wasn't as productive, they would look at me that way. I think my work speaks for itself. If there wasn't a teamwork or collaboration it would fall apart. It is in everyone's best interest to work together. 

>> I was a drama Turk at the Huntington Theatre Company. A show in ASL as well as spoken English. We decided this is how you wash -- you watch the show. I want to hear your thoughts about that, especially going back to the comment that the said earlier. What are your thoughts? 

>> the question around whether or not audiences need priming? 

>> I'm wondering what the benefits of that, hurry putting a crutch on here -- are we putting a crutch on here? 

>> education is part of how we work with our audience. There was a couple that came out to me after one show, saying it was wonderful how we mixed both languages, but why did we have so much language? So we thought -- they thought that it was some sort of choreography. And that it wasn't about accessibility. And all the considerations of fact, thinking that the audience is sitting there for two hours watching this entire show, and thinking it is just complicated choreography. 

>> I remember one time I had an old man come up to me during intermission and said I'm a subscriber and I would like to ask you to tell them to stop signing because it is bothering me. I don't like it and I don't like all that hand movement thing. It is education, you have to explain people. 

>> it is a long process. You will have signs saying this is a signed show. That is what we do best. 

>> yes, it is a good thing. 

>> you could be making an artistic choice not to. 

>> I'm not disagreeing, but I'm always going to be in a questionable place of what are we spin feeding our audiences? That is not what my fellow panelists are talking about at all. I think I'm supporting everything that they are saying. There is a real question about what we are trying to ease and spoon feed. And how might we take. I don't know what the Huntington was doing. What are we lowering -- what are we allowing as a teachable moment about different types of sign language is? I also know the deaf characters post be from different regions of the world. There is so much specificity that could come into that, which is so exciting. This is the ASL alphabet. 

>> in terms of dog and pony D.C., we are always building in some sort of invitation away from people that can access our work. And you can design your shows to be however or whatever you want. Do you want an educational component? We of course will be watching to see what you do if it works or if it doesn't. 

>> it becomes easier with every production you do in sign language. The barriers will slowly disintegrate. 

>> I'm curious about the experience of a mixed audience response to a show. I remember I had this show in Seattle where it was literally half deaf half hearing. And even watching the pre-shows of these coming together is kind of thrilling. I was wondering if you had anything to share. 

>> I have one specific story but we have ASL workshops. We will teach some people some basic sign language . Once they watch the production they are able to recognize certain signs and it is a thrilling experience for them. They are learning to listen from their years and their eyes. 

>> sometimes it also raises the expectation. We have student performers who are deaf and hearing. They will come up and say I didn't realize my daughter could do that, or I didn't realize my son could do that. Where the expectations might have been lower, they will end up getting a huge lesson of their own, and it is a mixed audience. I thought it would be at some level but it ends up being at a high level. And it changes people's perspective. 

>> so much of the work, on top of collaborating it is that moment of encounter for an entire culture that is not visible. I appreciate you guys talking about it. We have a tiny bit of time left, any last thoughts or questions before we go off to our next sessions? 

>> a question about open captioning versus signing , and of audiences have generally expressed a preference for one are the other -- one or the other? Caption point uses smartphones in theater broadcast. 

>> the question of open captioning. 

>> the more the better. 

>> remember maybe people who don't hear whether that here well consign. They are smoke -- their focus so much on their phone that they are missing the entire show. Like at Spring awakening. There is diversity in the deaf community. You will have an interpreter signing in your hand. It can be appropriate to working with your audiences. 

>> I would like to add that it is an important point you made . Whether it was a large cast, dialogue base. Whether you have the interpreter -- the interpreter or the captioning separate , I'm just reading a script. I read -- I create this instance. So it is nicer when you can incorporated into the show itself. 

>> technology is such that we are not quite there yet, but I would say the next step will be an augmented reality where the captions and interpreters can be projected, you won't have to look at one screen and jump your head back to look at the screen here. You may be able to follow the action and the dialogue on the stage. We are working with tech designers. We are hoping that is going to be the new thing. 

>> that is the kind of thing we talk about in design school. 

>> great. 

>> thank you to our panelists. [APPLAUSE] Good afternoon.