[PLEASE STAND BY] [PLEASE STAND BY] [PLEASE STAND [PLEASE STAND BY] BY] WHAT A LOT OF YOU ARE WATCHING WHAT A LOT OF YOU ARE WATCHING ONLINE. ONLINE. GIVE THEM AROUND APPLAUSE. GIVE THEM AROUND APPLAUSE. GIVE HIM A ROUND OF APPLAUSE. GIVE HIM A ROUND OF APPLAUSE. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I WANTED TO I WANTED TO KNOW [INDISCERNIBLE] KNOW [INDISCERNIBLE] WHICH ONE IS STRONGER WHICH ONE IS STRONGER -- -- OW. OW. THE NUB. THE NUB. THE NUB HAS BEEN A PART OF MY THE NUB HAS BEEN A PART OF MY LIFE FOR AS LONG AS I REMEMBER. LIFE FOR AS LONG AS I REMEMBER. SO HOW DID THIS ONE-HANDED SO HOW DID THIS ONE-HANDED GUY GUY BECOME AN ACTOR IN NEW YORK BECOME AN ACTOR IN NEW YORK CITY? CITY? 1974, IT'S LABOR DAY AND MY MOM 1974, IT'S LABOR DAY AND MY MOM IS IN LABOR. IS IN LABOR. AND MY DAD WAS ON HIS WAY AND MY DAD WAS ON HIS WAY -- -- EXCUSE ME COME MY WIFE WAS EXCUSE ME COME MY WIFE WAS SITTING HERE. SITTING HERE. HER NAME IS CAROL. HER NAME IS CAROL. CATHERINE CAROL. CATHERINE CAROL. I NEED TO GET IN THERE. I NEED TO GET IN THERE. SO WHAT DO I DO? SO WHAT DO I DO? DO I JUST WAIT HERE WITH THE DO I JUST WAIT HERE WITH THE CRAY FAMILY? CRAY FAMILY? CAROL, GEORGE, PAUL, LAMAR, CAROL, GEORGE, PAUL, LAMAR, RUTH, ROB, JOE, WHAT ARE YOU RUTH, ROB, JOE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING BY THE VENDING MACHINE? DOING BY THE VENDING MACHINE? THIS IS EXCITING. THIS IS EXCITING. MY SON IS GOING TO PLAY MY SON IS GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL. BASEBALL. HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT GREAT HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT GREAT RIGHT-HANDED PICTURE RIGHT-HANDED PICTURE -- HANDED -- HANDED PITCHER. PITCHER. HE IS GOING TO BE A HE IS GOING TO BE A HE. HE. SHUT YOUR FACE BECAUSE HERE SHUT YOUR FACE BECAUSE HERE COMES THE DOCTOR. COMES THE DOCTOR. WHAT HAVE YOU GOT? WHAT HAVE YOU GOT? IT'S A HE. IT'S A HE. I'M LISTENING. I'M LISTENING. IT'S JUST MY SON WAS BORN IT'S JUST MY SON WAS BORN WITHOUT HIS RIGHT HAND. WITHOUT HIS RIGHT HAND. HOW'S HE GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL? HOW'S HE GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL? I'M SORRY, IS THERE ANYTHING I'M SORRY, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WRONG? ELSE WRONG? CAN HE BREATHE PROPERLY? CAN HE BREATHE PROPERLY? FINE AND HEALTHY, JUST MISSING FINE AND HEALTHY, JUST MISSING HIS RIGHT HAND. HIS RIGHT HAND. CAN I SEE HIM? CAN I SEE HIM? LOOK AT YOU. LOOK AT YOU. HE IS CUTE. HE IS CUTE. HE LOOKS LIKE ME SO HE IS GOING HE LOOKS LIKE ME SO HE IS GOING TO BE CUTE. TO BE CUTE. I'M GOING TO TAKE HIM TO SEE HIS I'M GOING TO TAKE HIM TO SEE HIS MOTHER, KATHY. MOTHER, KATHY. I BROUGHT YOU OUR BOY. I BROUGHT YOU OUR BOY. HE IS BEAUTIFUL. HE IS BEAUTIFUL. FUNNY -- FUNNY -- HONEY HONEY , WHAT HAPPENED TO , WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS HAND? HIS HAND? IT'S JUST A GLITCH. IT'S JUST A GLITCH. WELL HE'S NOT GOING TO BE WELL HE'S NOT GOING TO BE DIFFERENT, HE HAS YOUR NAME. DIFFERENT, HE HAS YOUR NAME. WE WILL CALL HIM DAVID. WE WILL CALL HIM DAVID. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. DIFFERENT. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. DIFFERENT. MY SON IS JUST GOING TO PLAY MY SON IS JUST GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL LEFT-HANDED. BASEBALL LEFT-HANDED. THAT IS HOW I ENTERED THE WORLD. THAT IS HOW I ENTERED THE WORLD. I MAY HAVE EXAGGERATED A LITTLE I MAY HAVE EXAGGERATED A LITTLE BIT, BUT MY PARENTS PROMISED ME BIT, BUT MY PARENTS PROMISED ME I WAS NEVER GOING TO BE I WAS NEVER GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. DIFFERENT. THEY NEVER SAW ANYONE WHO LOOKED THEY NEVER SAW ANYONE WHO LOOKED LIKE ME SO MY PARENTS TOOK BEEN LIKE ME SO MY PARENTS TOOK BEEN TO A SHRINERS HOSPITAL AND THEY TO A SHRINERS HOSPITAL AND THEY FITTED ME WITH A PROSTHETIC. FITTED ME WITH A PROSTHETIC. THE OTHER THE OTHER KIDS, THEY WERE KIDS KIDS, THEY WERE KIDS LIKE ME. LIKE ME. WE WOULD PLAY GAMES LIKE CANDY WE WOULD PLAY GAMES LIKE CANDY LAND OR WATCH G.I. JOE CARE LAND OR WATCH G.I. JOE CARE BEARS. BEARS. AND THEN THEY WOULD CALL YOUR AND THEN THEY WOULD CALL YOUR NAME. NAME. I DIDN'T LIKE THIS PART. I DIDN'T LIKE THIS PART. YOU ENTER A ROOM FULL OF YOU ENTER A ROOM FULL OF DOCTORS. DOCTORS. SOMEONE WOULD JUST READING MY SOMEONE WOULD JUST READING MY CHART. CHART. MY ARM JUST HUNG IN THE AIR MY ARM JUST HUNG IN THE AIR WHILE MEN AND WOMEN IN WHITE WHILE MEN AND WOMEN IN WHITE COATS TWISTED MY ARM. COATS TWISTED MY ARM. USING WORDS I COULD NOT USING WORDS I COULD NOT UNDERSTAND. UNDERSTAND. DR., DOCTOR, DR., DOCTOR AND DR., DOCTOR, DR., DOCTOR AND DOCTOR. DOCTOR. THIS YOUNG MAN HAS A THIS YOUNG MAN HAS A MALFORMATION OF THE RIGHT HAND. MALFORMATION OF THE RIGHT HAND. SO, TELL US SO, TELL US HOW ARE YOU DOING? HOW ARE YOU DOING? I'M DOING PRETTY GOOD. I'M DOING PRETTY GOOD. I HEARD A NEW SONG, DO YOU WANT I HEARD A NEW SONG, DO YOU WANT TO HEAR IT? TO HEAR IT? THE DEVIL WENT DOWN TO THE DEVIL WENT DOWN TO GEORGIA, GEORGIA, HE WAS LOOKING FOR A SOLD STEEL, HE WAS LOOKING FOR A SOLD STEEL, HE WAS IN A BIND, HE WAS WAY HE WAS IN A BIND, HE WAS WAY BEHIND, HE WAS LOOKING TO MAKE A BEHIND, HE WAS LOOKING TO MAKE A DEAL. DEAL. THE DEVILS'S IN THE HOUSE WITH THE DEVILS'S IN THE HOUSE WITH THE RISING SUN. THE RISING SUN. CHICKEN IN THE HEN CHICKEN IN THE HEN HOUSE PICKING HOUSE PICKING UP THOUGH. UP THOUGH. ♪ ♪ MY DAD WOULD WATCH FROM THE BACK MY DAD WOULD WATCH FROM THE BACK OF THE ROOM, OH DEAR OF THE ROOM, OH DEAR GOD. GOD. THEN HEWITT TAKE ME BY THE HAND THEN HEWITT TAKE ME BY THE HAND AND LEAD ME DOWN THE HALLWAYS TO AND LEAD ME DOWN THE HALLWAYS TO THE BASEMENT OF THE SHRINERS THE BASEMENT OF THE SHRINERS HOSPITAL HOSPITAL . . I WAS ALWAYS FITTED BY THIS GUY I WAS ALWAYS FITTED BY THIS GUY NAMED BRUCE, WHO WAS A GIANT. NAMED BRUCE, WHO WAS A GIANT. HE HAD AN ARTIFICIAL HE HAD AN ARTIFICIAL LEG AND LEG AND SOMETIMES HE WOULD KARATE CHOP SOMETIMES HE WOULD KARATE CHOP IT WITH LINEUP. IT WITH LINEUP. WE HAVE TO GIVE YOU A NEW WE HAVE TO GIVE YOU A NEW PROSTHESIS. PROSTHESIS. AND HE WOULD TAKE PLASTER OF AND HE WOULD TAKE PLASTER OF PARIS AND PUT IT IN THE WATER. PARIS AND PUT IT IN THE WATER. ONCE IT WAS WET ONCE IT WAS WET HE WOULD WRAP MY HE WOULD WRAP MY ARM. ARM. I WOULD FEEL THE HEAT OF IT. I WOULD FEEL THE HEAT OF IT. THE MAKINGS OF A NEW PROSTHESIS. THE MAKINGS OF A NEW PROSTHESIS. SO, DAVID, I HEAR YOU ARE ABOUT SO, DAVID, I HEAR YOU ARE ABOUT TO START PRESCHOOL, DO YOU KNOW TO START PRESCHOOL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO BE WHEN YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO BE WHEN YOU GROW UP? GROW UP? WELL I WANT TO BE A BASEBALL WELL I WANT TO BE A BASEBALL PLAYER OR A FOOTBALL PLAYER. PLAYER OR A FOOTBALL PLAYER. >> HOWDY YOU KNOW WHAT A >> HOWDY YOU KNOW WHAT A LETTERMAN JACK -- HOW DO YOU LETTERMAN JACK -- HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT A LETTERMAN JACKET IS? KNOW WHAT A LETTERMAN JACKET IS? ALL THE GUYS COME OUT WITH A ALL THE GUYS COME OUT WITH A CHECK IN WITH THE BIG LETTER ON CHECK IN WITH THE BIG LETTER ON THEM AND THEY ALL HAVE THEM AND THEY ALL HAVE GIRLFRIENDS. GIRLFRIENDS. AND I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE THEM. AND I WANT TO BE JUST LIKE THEM. AND YOU MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE AND YOU MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE ARE GOING TO NEED LOTS OF ARE GOING TO NEED LOTS OF PERSEVERANCE. PERSEVERANCE. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT PERSEVERANCE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT PERSEVERANCE MEANT. MEANT. OVER TO THE OVER TO THE PERSON WHO KNEW PERSON WHO KNEW EVERYTHING, MY GRANDDAD. EVERYTHING, MY GRANDDAD. TODAY THE SHRINERS SAID I NEED A TODAY THE SHRINERS SAID I NEED A LOT OF PERSEVERANCE, DO YOU KNOW LOT OF PERSEVERANCE, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? >> WILL TELL YOU WHAT THAT IS? >> WILL TELL YOU WHAT, PERSEVERANCE IS A LOT LIKE WHAT, PERSEVERANCE IS A LOT LIKE MY LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM. MY LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM. WE WERE CALLED WE WERE CALLED LITTLE POTATOES. LITTLE POTATOES. WE WERE SMALLER THAN WE WERE SMALLER THAN THE OTHER THE OTHER KIDS, MAYBE NOT AS TALENTED BUT KIDS, MAYBE NOT AS TALENTED BUT WE ALWAYS PLAYED WITH OUR WE ALWAYS PLAYED WITH OUR HEARTS. HEARTS. IT DIDN'T MATTER IF WE WON OR IT DIDN'T MATTER IF WE WON OR LOST. LOST. IS THE INSIDE WE'RE TALKING IS THE INSIDE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. ABOUT. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS I HAD NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. TALKING ABOUT. I WAS STARTING PRESCHOOL AND I WAS STARTING PRESCHOOL AND EVERYONE KNOWS THE BEST PART OF EVERYONE KNOWS THE BEST PART OF THE SCHOOL THE GLORIOUS SLIDE AT THE SCHOOL THE GLORIOUS SLIDE AT THE PLAYGROUND. THE PLAYGROUND. AND I'M IN A RACE WITH THIS KID AND I'M IN A RACE WITH THIS KID TO BE THE FIRST IN LINE AT THE TO BE THE FIRST IN LINE AT THE SLIDE AND I WIN. SLIDE AND I WIN. >> HEY CAPTAIN HOOK >> HEY CAPTAIN HOOK -- HEY -- HEY CAPTAIN HOOK, BETTER WATCH HER CAPTAIN HOOK, BETTER WATCH HER ARM. ARM. DID YOU FIND YOUR ALLIGATOR? DID YOU FIND YOUR ALLIGATOR? CAPTAIN HOOK, CAPTAIN HOOK, CAPTAIN HOOK, CAPTAIN HOOK, CAPTAIN HOOK. CAPTAIN HOOK. I SUCK I SUCK -- I SWUNG MY HOOK AND -- I SWUNG MY HOOK AND MISSED. MISSED. HE TAKES OFF RUNNING AND I CHASE HE TAKES OFF RUNNING AND I CHASE THEM OFF WAY BACK TO THE SCHOOL THEM OFF WAY BACK TO THE SCHOOL BUILDING. BUILDING. THEN I RAN BACK TO THE SLIDE THEN I RAN BACK TO THE SLIDE BECAUSE NOW I WAS FIRST IN LINE. BECAUSE NOW I WAS FIRST IN LINE. AND FOR THE FIRST TIME I SEE IT. AND FOR THE FIRST TIME I SEE IT. I REALLY SEE IT. I REALLY SEE IT. MY HOOK. MY HOOK. I LOOKED DOWN AT ALL THE OTHER I LOOKED DOWN AT ALL THE OTHER KIDS, LOOKING UP AT ME KIDS, LOOKING UP AT ME AND I AND I REALIZED THAT MY PARENTS LIVE TO REALIZED THAT MY PARENTS LIVE TO ME. ME. I AM DIFFERENT. I AM DIFFERENT. HIS MAMA WAS WAITING FOR MY HIS MAMA WAS WAITING FOR MY MOMMA AFTER PRESCHOOL. MOMMA AFTER PRESCHOOL. YOU NEED TO TELL YOUR STUFF -- YOU NEED TO TELL YOUR STUFF -- TELL YOUR SON TO STAY AWAY FROM TELL YOUR SON TO STAY AWAY FROM I SON WITH THAT THING ON HIS ON I SON WITH THAT THING ON HIS ON HIS ARM. HIS ARM. WHILE YOU NEED TO TELL YOUR SON WHILE YOU NEED TO TELL YOUR SON TO STOP CALLING MY SON NAMES. TO STOP CALLING MY SON NAMES. SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE STUPID. SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE STUPID. THEY GET SCARED BY WHAT THEY THEY GET SCARED BY WHAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND. DON'T UNDERSTAND. YOU HAVE TO WEAR YOUR YOU HAVE TO WEAR YOUR HOOK, AND HOOK, AND YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND. RIGHT HAND. IF HE SAYS ANYTHING TO YOU IF HE SAYS ANYTHING TO YOU AGAIN, USE YOUR LEFT HAND PUNCH AGAIN, USE YOUR LEFT HAND PUNCH THEM IN THE NOSE. THEM IN THE NOSE. THE PRESCHOOL CALL THE PRESCHOOL CALL MY PARENTS TO MY PARENTS TO TELL THEM THEY COULDN'T HAVE ME TELL THEM THEY COULDN'T HAVE ME TERRORIZING ALL THE OTHER KIDS TERRORIZING ALL THE OTHER KIDS ON THE PLAYGROUND AND I WAS NOT ON THE PLAYGROUND AND I WAS NOT WELCOME BACK. WELCOME BACK. MY MOM MY MOM TOLD MY DAD, YOU NEED TO TOLD MY DAD, YOU NEED TO FIRE UP THAT STATION WAGON FIRE UP THAT STATION WAGON BECAUSE OF THAT LADY WANTS TO BECAUSE OF THAT LADY WANTS TO SEE TERRORIZING I WILL SHOW HER SEE TERRORIZING I WILL SHOW HER HOW WE TAKE CARE OF THINGS SOUTH HOW WE TAKE CARE OF THINGS SOUTH GEORGIA STYLE. GEORGIA STYLE. HONEYED, COULD I GET YOU A HONEYED, COULD I GET YOU A LIGHT? LIGHT? SHE MORE SHE MORE THESE LONG FLOWING THESE LONG FLOWING CLOTHES AND HAD BIG GOLD CLOTHES AND HAD BIG GOLD BRACELETS THAT JINGLED WHEN SHE BRACELETS THAT JINGLED WHEN SHE WALKED. WALKED. SHE HAD THIS RASPY VOICE THAT SHE HAD THIS RASPY VOICE THAT ACCOMPANIED HER BLEACH BLONDE ACCOMPANIED HER BLEACH BLONDE HAIR. HAIR. YOU ARE A PROMISE, YOU ARE A YOU ARE A PROMISE, YOU ARE A POSSIBILITY. POSSIBILITY. YOU ARE A PROMISE FOR P YOU ARE A PROMISE FOR P -- -- PROMISE WITH A CAPITAL P. PROMISE WITH A CAPITAL P. SHE ALSO INTRODUCES ME TO THE SHE ALSO INTRODUCES ME TO THE STAGE AND INADVERTENTLY ALTERS STAGE AND INADVERTENTLY ALTERS THE COURSE OF MY LIFE. THE COURSE OF MY LIFE. YOU ARE A LITTLE PERFORMER. YOU ARE A LITTLE PERFORMER. I THINK YOU WOULD BE WONDERFUL I THINK YOU WOULD BE WONDERFUL AS THE THIRD BILLY GOATS GRUFF. AS THE THIRD BILLY GOATS GRUFF. I LOVED BEING BILLY GOAT GRUFF. I LOVED BEING BILLY GOAT GRUFF. THAT SUMMER SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT SUMMER SOMETHING HAPPENED THAT MADE ME THAT MADE ME THE COOLEST KID IN THE COOLEST KID IN THE WORLD. THE WORLD. MY MOM TOOK ME TO SEE EMPIRE MY MOM TOOK ME TO SEE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AND LUKE SKYWALKER, STRIKES BACK AND LUKE SKYWALKER, THE BIGGEST HERO IN THE WORLD, THE BIGGEST HERO IN THE WORLD, GETS HIS FREAKING HAND CHOPPED GETS HIS FREAKING HAND CHOPPED OFF. OFF. I COULD BE LUKE SKYWALKER. I COULD BE LUKE SKYWALKER. WHEN I WAS A KID STAR WARS WAS WHEN I WAS A KID STAR WARS WAS THE BIGGEST THING IN THE WORLD AND WE PLAYED STAR WARS ALL THE THE BIGGEST THING IN THE WORLD TIME. AND WE PLAYED STAR WARS ALL THE TIME. NOW I COULD SAY, I WANT TO BE NOW I COULD SAY, I WANT TO BE LUKE SKYWALKER BECAUSE I ONLY LUKE SKYWALKER BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE ONE HAND. HAVE ONE HAND. MY FRIEND WOULD BE DARTH VADER MY FRIEND WOULD BE DARTH VADER AND WE WOULD HAVE EPIC LIGHT AND WE WOULD HAVE EPIC LIGHT SABER BATTLES IN HIS TREEHOUSE, SABER BATTLES IN HIS TREEHOUSE, WHICH BECAME CLOUD CITY. WHICH BECAME CLOUD CITY. IF YOU ONLY KNEW THE POWER OF IF YOU ONLY KNEW THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE. THE DARK SIDE. OBI-WAN NEVER TOLD YOU WHAT OBI-WAN NEVER TOLD YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FATHER. HAPPENED TO YOUR FATHER. HE TOLD ME ENOUGH, HE TOLD ME HE TOLD ME ENOUGH, HE TOLD ME YOU KILLED HIM. YOU KILLED HIM. NO, I AM YOUR FATHER. NO, I AM YOUR FATHER. [HUMMING "IMPERIAL MARCH"] [HUMMING "IMPERIAL MARCH"] NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE, THAT'S NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE. IMPOSSIBLE. [HUMMING "IMPERIAL MARCH"] [HUMMING "IMPERIAL MARCH"] THANK YOU, LANDO. THANK YOU, LANDO. NOW TAKE ME TO THE SPACE STATION NOW TAKE ME TO THE SPACE STATION WHERE I CAN GET MY NEW LUKE WHERE I CAN GET MY NEW LUKE SKYWALKER HAND. SKYWALKER HAND. WAIT A MINUTE. WAIT A MINUTE. DO I NEED A LUKE SKYWALKER DO I NEED A LUKE SKYWALKER HAND? HAND? YOU DON'T NEED NO LUKE SKYWALKER YOU DON'T NEED NO LUKE SKYWALKER HAND. HAND. I SHOULD TELL YOU MY I SHOULD TELL YOU MY FAVORITE FAVORITE TELEVISION SHOW WAS THE A-TEAM TELEVISION SHOW WAS THE A-TEAM AND MY FAVORITE CHARACTER WAS BA AND MY FAVORITE CHARACTER WAS BA BARAK S, PLAYED BY BARAK S, PLAYED BY THE THE INCOMPARABLE MR. T. INCOMPARABLE MR. T. I PRETENDED MY HAND LOOKED LIKE I PRETENDED MY HAND LOOKED LIKE MR. T. MR. T. WHY FINGERS MADE WHY FINGERS MADE A PERFECT A PERFECT MOHAWK. MOHAWK. I WOULD COLOR IN MY FINGERS TO I WOULD COLOR IN MY FINGERS TO MAKE A MOHAWK. MAKE A MOHAWK. I WOULD PUT A COUPLE OF EYES, A I WOULD PUT A COUPLE OF EYES, A MOUTH. MOUTH. AND IN MY IMAGINATION MR. T AND IN MY IMAGINATION MR. T WOULD COME ALIVE. WOULD COME ALIVE. HE GIVE ME HE GIVE ME ADVICE. ADVICE. YOU DON'T NEED NO NEW LUKE YOU DON'T NEED NO NEW LUKE SKYWALKER HAND. SKYWALKER HAND. YOU LIKE PLAYING WITH YOUR HOOK. YOU LIKE PLAYING WITH YOUR HOOK. THEM EVERYONE SAYS I HAVE TO USE IT. THEM EVERYONE SAYS I HAVE TO USE IT. NO YOU DON'T. NO YOU DON'T. THERE ARE SO MONEY THINGS YOU THERE ARE SO MONEY THINGS YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR HOOK. CAN DO WITH YOUR HOOK. THEY BASEBALL. THEY BASEBALL. HOW AM I GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL? HOW AM I GOING TO PLAY BASEBALL? THE GLOVE ON YOUR LEFT-HAND THE GLOVE ON YOUR LEFT-HAND , , HOLD THE BALL AND THROW IT. HOLD THE BALL AND THROW IT. IT'S GOING TO LOOK CITY. IT'S GOING TO LOOK CITY. -- LOOK SILLY. -- LOOK SILLY. JUST DO IT. JUST DO IT. I WILL I WILL CATCH THE BALL, ROLL IT CATCH THE BALL, ROLL IT OVER, TAKE THE BALL AND THROW OVER, TAKE THE BALL AND THROW IT. IT. CATCH THE BALL, ROLL IT OVER, CATCH THE BALL, ROLL IT OVER, TAKE THE BALL AND THROW IT. TAKE THE BALL AND THROW IT. I I WOULD THROW WITH MY DAD IN THE WOULD THROW WITH MY DAD IN THE BACKYARD AND THEN I WOULD THROW BACKYARD AND THEN I WOULD THROW THE BALL AGAINST MY HOUSE UNTIL THE BALL AGAINST MY HOUSE UNTIL IT WAS DARK. IT WAS DARK. BY MIDDLE SCHOOL I WAS MAKING BY MIDDLE SCHOOL I WAS MAKING THE ALL-STAR TEAM. THE ALL-STAR TEAM. A GUY NAMED JIM ABBOTT WAS A GUY NAMED JIM ABBOTT WAS BORN BORN LIKE ME. LIKE ME. HE WAS GOING TO PITCH IN THE HE WAS GOING TO PITCH IN THE NATE -- PITCH IN THE NATE -- PITCH IN THE MAJOR-LEAGUE'S PAID A GOOD TO BE MAJOR-LEAGUE'S PAID A GOOD TO BE THE NEXT GREAT LEFT-HANDED THE NEXT GREAT LEFT-HANDED PITCHER. PITCHER. YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO A YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO A LETTERMAN JACKET NOW, I KNOW MR. LETTERMAN JACKET NOW, I KNOW MR. T. T. TO BE NORMAL I NEED TO HAVE A TO BE NORMAL I NEED TO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND TO GO ALONG WITH THE GIRLFRIEND TO GO ALONG WITH THE LETTERMAN JACKET. LETTERMAN JACKET. HOW DOES ONE GET A GIRLFRIEND? HOW DOES ONE GET A GIRLFRIEND? IT IS A NUMBERS GAME. IT IS A NUMBERS GAME. THE MORE GIRLS I ASK OUT THE THE MORE GIRLS I ASK OUT THE BETTER MY CHANCES ARE. BETTER MY CHANCES ARE. NOT EXACTLY. NOT EXACTLY. I CAN ASK OUT ALL THE GIRLS IN I CAN ASK OUT ALL THE GIRLS IN THE LUNCH ROOM. THE LUNCH ROOM. WHAT IS YOUR PREDICTION? WHAT IS YOUR PREDICTION? PAIN. PAIN. HIGH LADIES. HIGH LADIES. LESLIE, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU LESLIE, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE MY GIRLFRIEND WOULD LIKE TO BE MY GIRLFRIEND AND GO WITH ME AND GO WITH ME ? ? JULIE, I WAS ONE IF YOU WOULD JULIE, I WAS ONE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE MY GIRLFRIEND AND GO LIKE TO BE MY GIRLFRIEND AND GO WITH ME? WITH ME? AND, AND, NO? OK. NO? OK. I PITY THE GIRL -- NOT NOW MR. I PITY THE GIRL -- NOT NOW MR. T. T. THEY DON'T WANT TO GO WITH ME OR THEY DON'T WANT TO GO WITH ME OR BE MY GIRLFRIEND BECAUSE I'M NOT BE MY GIRLFRIEND BECAUSE I'M NOT NORMAL AND YOU KNOW THAT IS NORMAL AND YOU KNOW THAT IS TRUE. TRUE. WHAT CAN I DO TO BE NORMAL WHAT CAN I DO TO BE NORMAL ENOUGH TO HAVE THESE GIRLS PAY ENOUGH TO HAVE THESE GIRLS PAY ATTENTION TO ME? ATTENTION TO ME? HAVE YOU EVER TRIED POLITICS? HAVE YOU EVER TRIED POLITICS? IT'S NO SECRET, LADIES LOVE A IT'S NO SECRET, LADIES LOVE A POLITICIAN. POLITICIAN. YOU NEED TO PUT YOUR BIG YOU NEED TO PUT YOUR BIG BOY BOY PANTIES ON AND RUN FOR STUDENT PANTIES ON AND RUN FOR STUDENT COUNCIL. COUNCIL. SO I PUT MY BIG BOY PANTIES ON SO I PUT MY BIG BOY PANTIES ON AND TELL MY MOM GOING TO RUN FOR AND TELL MY MOM GOING TO RUN FOR STUDENT COUNCIL. STUDENT COUNCIL. THAT IS BRILLIANT. THAT IS BRILLIANT. I COULD BE A CAMPAIGN MANAGER. I COULD BE A CAMPAIGN MANAGER. I HAVE A CAMPAIGN SLOGAN, CATCH I HAVE A CAMPAIGN SLOGAN, CATCH THE WAVE, VOTE FOR DAVE. THE WAVE, VOTE FOR DAVE. I SEE A BILLBOARD THAT SAYS I SEE A BILLBOARD THAT SAYS CATCH THE WAVE, VOTE FOR DAVE. CATCH THE WAVE, VOTE FOR DAVE. MY HOMEROOM MY HOMEROOM TEACHER WAS ALSO A TEACHER WAS ALSO A BIG FAN OF MY CAMPAIGN. BIG FAN OF MY CAMPAIGN. IT IS AWESOME. IT IS AWESOME. AT THE FACTS ARE YOU ARE RUNNING AT THE FACTS ARE YOU ARE RUNNING AGAINST ALL THE POPULAR KIDS. AGAINST ALL THE POPULAR KIDS. YOU NEED TO FOCUS IN ON THE YOU NEED TO FOCUS IN ON THE UNIVERSAL VOTE AND WHAT IS MORE UNIVERSAL VOTE AND WHAT IS MORE UNIVERSAL THAN RAP? UNIVERSAL THAN RAP? YOU SHOULD WRAP YOUR SPEECH. YOU SHOULD WRAP YOUR SPEECH. MOM, HE THINKS I SHOULD WRAP MY SPEECH. MOM, HE THINKS I SHOULD WRAP MY SPEECH. >> THAT IS BRILLIANT. >> THAT IS BRILLIANT. THE NEXT MORNING MY MOTHER THE NEXT MORNING MY MOTHER WRAPPED FOR ME. WRAPPED FOR ME. YOU NEED TO SHOW THEM HOW WE DO YOU NEED TO SHOW THEM HOW WE DO IT SOUTH GEORGIA STYLE. IT SOUTH GEORGIA STYLE. IN THE IMMORTAL WORDS OF TONE L IN THE IMMORTAL WORDS OF TONE L OC, LET'S DO IT. OC, LET'S DO IT. MY NAME IS DAVE AND I'M MY NAME IS DAVE AND I'M ASKING YOU TO CATCH THE ASKING YOU TO CATCH THE WAVE. WAVE. GIVE ME THE CHANCE GIVE ME THE CHANCE TO EXHIBIT TO EXHIBIT THESE PILOT TIMMY HAS YOUR THESE PILOT TIMMY HAS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE BOY -- BY -- REPRESENTATIVE BOY -- BY -- EXHIBIT EXHIBIT THESE LIGHT THESE LIGHT COLLECTING ME YOUR COLLECTING ME YOUR REPRESENTATIVE. REPRESENTATIVE. RIDE THE WAVE TO GLENN ACADEMY. RIDE THE WAVE TO GLENN ACADEMY. PEACE. PEACE. THERE WAS THIS THERE WAS THIS CORRUPTION OF CORRUPTION OF APPLAUSE FROM THE ENTIRE EIGHTH APPLAUSE FROM THE ENTIRE EIGHTH GRADE. GRADE. AND THEN A STANDING OVATION. AND THEN A STANDING OVATION. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A STANDING I HAVE NEVER SEEN A STANDING OVATION BEFORE. OVATION BEFORE. KIND OF FLOATED BACK TO MY SEAT. KIND OF FLOATED BACK TO MY SEAT. TONYA WHO WAS SITTING BESIDE ME TONYA WHO WAS SITTING BESIDE ME WHISPERS, I HATE YOU. WHISPERS, I HATE YOU. I GUESS GIRLS DON'T LIKE I GUESS GIRLS DON'T LIKE POLITICIANS. POLITICIANS. I ENDED UP GETTING ELECTED TO I ENDED UP GETTING ELECTED TO STUDENT COUNCIL BUT I STILL STUDENT COUNCIL BUT I STILL DIDN'T HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. DIDN'T HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. I WENT BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL I WENT BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL GAME PLAN, IF I COULD GET THAT GAME PLAN, IF I COULD GET THAT LETTER -- THAT LETTERMAN JACKET. LETTER -- THAT LETTERMAN JACKET. THE NEXT YEAR I THE NEXT YEAR I PLAYED JV PLAYED JV QUARTERBACK. QUARTERBACK. EVERYONE KNOWS EVERYONE KNOWS THE VARSITY THE VARSITY QUARTERBACK HAS A LETTERMAN QUARTERBACK HAS A LETTERMAN JACKET AND A GIRLFRIEND. JACKET AND A GIRLFRIEND. THE COACH, WHO LOOKS LIKE A THE COACH, WHO LOOKS LIKE A MIXTURE OF A PIT BULL AND AN MIXTURE OF A PIT BULL AND AN OGRE, HE CHEWED TOBACCO ON THE OGRE, HE CHEWED TOBACCO ON THE TIME. TIME. GET OVER HERE IDIOT TO ONE. GET OVER HERE IDIOT TO ONE. HAVE I TOLD YOU HOW MUCH YOU HAVE I TOLD YOU HOW MUCH YOU SUCK? SUCK? FOR FOR SOME REASON IN MY VAST WORLD SOME REASON IN MY VAST WORLD OF WISDOM ICE OF WISDOM ICE NEED TO CONSTANTLY NEED TO CONSTANTLY REMIND YOU THAT YOU SUCK. REMIND YOU THAT YOU SUCK. YOU SUCK AT RUNNING, YOU SUCK AT YOU SUCK AT RUNNING, YOU SUCK AT HAND -- SECOND PASSING. HAND -- SECOND PASSING. WE ARE NOT GOING TO THROW THE WE ARE NOT GOING TO THROW THE BALL NO MORE. BALL NO MORE. THERE THERE AIN'T NO WAY YOU ARE GOING AIN'T NO WAY YOU ARE GOING TO RUN AN OPTION. TO RUN AN OPTION. WITH ONE HAND. WITH ONE HAND. COME OVER COME OVER HERE, YOU ARE GOING TO HERE, YOU ARE GOING TO BE OUR QUARTERBACK. BE OUR QUARTERBACK. I STARTED TO THINK MAYBE HE WAS I STARTED TO THINK MAYBE HE WAS RIGHT. RIGHT. THEY MOVED ME FROM QUARTERBACK THEY MOVED ME FROM QUARTERBACK TO LINEBACKER. TO LINEBACKER. MY NECK PRETENDS IT IS AN MY NECK PRETENDS IT IS AN ACCORDION. ACCORDION. WITHOUT PLAYING I DON'T GET THAT WITHOUT PLAYING I DON'T GET THAT LETTERMAN JACKET, I WOULD NEVER LETTERMAN JACKET, I WOULD NEVER FEEL NORMAL. FEEL NORMAL. AND A GIRL FROM MIDDLE SCHOOL AND A GIRL FROM MIDDLE SCHOOL WAS JUST TRY TO HELP. WAS JUST TRY TO HELP. I DECIDE FLIER INVITING PEOPLE I DECIDE FLIER INVITING PEOPLE TO ADDITION FOR THE TRAUMA CLASS TO ADDITION FOR THE TRAUMA CLASS AND I THINK YOU SHOULD DO IT. AND I THINK YOU SHOULD DO IT. I KNOW YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A I KNOW YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A GIRLFRIEND AND I DON'T FIND YOU GIRLFRIEND AND I DON'T FIND YOU ATTRACTIVE, THAT I THINK THAT ATTRACTIVE, THAT I THINK THAT THEATER PEOPLE THEATER PEOPLE -- THEATER PEOPLE -- THEATER PEOPLE ARE FUNNY, AND FUNNY IS CUTE. ARE FUNNY, AND FUNNY IS CUTE. THEY ARE DOING ROMEO AND JULIET THEY ARE DOING ROMEO AND JULIET AND SOMEHOW I READ MY AUDITION AND SOMEHOW I READ MY AUDITION AND I FINISH BY SAYING, I HAVE AND I FINISH BY SAYING, I HAVE EXPERIENCE, I HAVE BEEN THE EXPERIENCE, I HAVE BEEN THE THIRD BILLY GOAT GRUFF. THIRD BILLY GOAT GRUFF. SOMEHOW SOMEWAY I GET CAST AS SOMEHOW SOMEWAY I GET CAST AS ROMEO AND WILLY WONKA IN THE ROMEO AND WILLY WONKA IN THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY. CHOCOLATE FACTORY. IT FELT LIKE I WAS AT HOME. IT FELT LIKE I WAS AT HOME. IT STARTED TO FEEL IT STARTED TO FEEL REAL. REAL. THEY DON'T GIVE LETTERMAN JACKET THEY DON'T GIVE LETTERMAN JACKET OUT FOR DRAMA. OUT FOR DRAMA. SO I WENT SO I WENT OUT BECAUSE I THOUGHT OUT BECAUSE I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO GET THAT I WAS GOING TO GET THAT LETTERMAN JACKET. LETTERMAN JACKET. AND I WAS GOING TO BE NORMAL. AND I WAS GOING TO BE NORMAL. AND MY DAD BUILT A PITCHER'S AND MY DAD BUILT A PITCHER'S MOUND IN THE BACKYARD. MOUND IN THE BACKYARD. THEY HAVE TO PUT ME ON THE TEAM. THEY HAVE TO PUT ME ON THE TEAM. THERE IS JUST ONE THING THAT THERE IS JUST ONE THING THAT KEEPS ME FROM ACTUALLY PLAYING. KEEPS ME FROM ACTUALLY PLAYING. USE ACT. USE ACT. COME ON COACH, COME ON COACH, I'VE BEEN WORKING I'VE BEEN WORKING REALLY HARD, YOU HAVE TO LET ME REALLY HARD, YOU HAVE TO LET ME PLAY. PLAY. >> I MIGHT >> I MIGHT MAYBE LET YOU PITCH MAYBE LET YOU PITCH THE THIRD PLAYOFF GAME IN OUR THE THIRD PLAYOFF GAME IN OUR PLAYOFF SERIES. PLAYOFF SERIES. THE PLAYOFF SERIES WAS A BEST OF THE PLAYOFF SERIES WAS A BEST OF THREE GAMES SO FOR YOU WON THE THREE GAMES SO FOR YOU WON THE FIRST TWO GAMES WE WOULD NEVER FIRST TWO GAMES WE WOULD NEVER EVER PLAY A THIRD GAME. EVER PLAY A THIRD GAME. EVERYONE EXPECTED US TO WIN EVERYONE EXPECTED US TO WIN THOSE FIRST TWO GAMES AND WE THOSE FIRST TWO GAMES AND WE LOST. LOST. AND I WENT TO THE AND I WENT TO THE BULLPEN TO BULLPEN TO PITCH THE THIRD. PITCH THE THIRD. DAVID, A CHANGED MY MIND, YOU'RE DAVID, A CHANGED MY MIND, YOU'RE OUT. OUT. I JUST WANTED A CHANCE TO PROVE I JUST WANTED A CHANCE TO PROVE MYSELF. MYSELF. I HAD TO SEND YOUR FATHER I HAD TO SEND YOUR FATHER HOME. HOME. YOU CAN'T QUIT, THAT IS WHAT YOU CAN'T QUIT, THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO. THEY WANT YOU TO DO. MY MY COACH WOULD ALWAYS BE IN MY COACH WOULD ALWAYS BE IN MY EARS SAYING WHEN ARE YOU GOING EARS SAYING WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO QUIT HAROLD, WHEN ARE YOU TO QUIT HAROLD, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO QUIT? GOING TO QUIT? AND I WOULD SAY AND I WOULD SAY GRADUATION DAY, 1967. GRADUATION DAY, 1967. THAT IS WHAT PERSEVERANCE IS. THAT IS WHAT PERSEVERANCE IS. AND LIVE IS A LOT ABOUT AND LIVE IS A LOT ABOUT PERSEVERANCE AND COURAGE. PERSEVERANCE AND COURAGE. FIND THE COURAGE TO GO BACK AND FIND THE COURAGE TO GO BACK AND THAT DUGOUT. THAT DUGOUT. I GOT A FAVOR FOR YOU. I GOT A FAVOR FOR YOU. I WENT TO THE BULLPEN AND WARMED I WENT TO THE BULLPEN AND WARMED UP. UP. THE TIMED RUN WAS THE TIMED RUN WAS ON THIRD. ON THIRD. I THREW THE BALL HOME AND I WATCHED. I THREW THE BALL HOME AND I WATCHED. HE TURNS THE DOUBLE PLAY. HE TURNS THE DOUBLE PLAY. AND AND I JUMP AND I AM BUMP BAR TO I JUMP AND I AM BUMP BAR TO BUY OF THE TEAM. BUY OF THE TEAM. AND I WAS KING OF THE WORLD FOR AND I WAS KING OF THE WORLD FOR FIVE MINUTES. FIVE MINUTES. THE REST OF THE TEAM GO BACK TO THE REST OF THE TEAM GO BACK TO CELEBRATE AND I STAY ON THE CELEBRATE AND I STAY ON THE PITCHER'S MOUND. PITCHER'S MOUND. THAT WAS A HECK OF A GAME. THAT WAS A HECK OF A GAME. I'VE GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU. I'VE GOT SOMETHING FOR YOU. I STILL THINK YOU I STILL THINK YOU SUCK, JUST SUCK, JUST NOT NOT TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY. TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY. HERE YOU GO. HERE YOU GO. IT'S YOURS. IT'S YOURS. THIS FEELS GOOD MR. T. THIS FEELS GOOD MR. T. YOU KNOW IT DOES. YOU KNOW IT DOES. DO YOU FEEL NORMAL NOW? KIND DO YOU FEEL NORMAL NOW? KIND OF OF . . IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING IS STILL IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING IS STILL MISSING LIKE A GIRLFRIEND. MISSING LIKE A GIRLFRIEND. HOW DOES ONE MAKE A FRIEND A HOW DOES ONE MAKE A FRIEND A GIRLFRIEND? GIRLFRIEND? RESPECT JUST A LITTLE BIT. RESPECT JUST A LITTLE BIT. RE: SPECT. RE: SPECT. >> OZONE AND IF YOU LIKE TO GET >> OZONE AND IF YOU LIKE TO GET SOME HOT CHOCOLATE AND WE CAN SOME HOT CHOCOLATE AND WE CAN WARM UP A LITTLE BIT. WARM UP A LITTLE BIT. ARE YOU ASKING ME OUT? ARE YOU ASKING ME OUT? I DON'T FIND YOU I DON'T FIND YOU ATTRACTIVE BUT ATTRACTIVE BUT MANY OF MY FRIENDS FIND HER. MANY OF MY FRIENDS FIND HER. YOU'RE BEING KIND OF FUNNY. YOU'RE BEING KIND OF FUNNY. I SAID FUNNY IS CUTE. I SAID FUNNY IS CUTE. I THINK I'M SORT OF I THINK I'M SORT OF FINDING USE FINDING USE OUT OF CUTE. OUT OF CUTE. I WILL TOTALLY BE YOUR I WILL TOTALLY BE YOUR GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND. YOU GOT A LETTERMAN JACKET FOR A YOU GOT A LETTERMAN JACKET FOR A GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND. IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING IS IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING IS GOING SO FAST. GOING SO FAST. I JUST GOT A LETTER FROM A I JUST GOT A LETTER FROM A BASEBALL COACH IN TENNESSEE. BASEBALL COACH IN TENNESSEE. HE WANTS TO OFFER HE WANTS TO OFFER YOU A BASEBALL YOU A BASEBALL SCHOLARSHIP AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT SCHOLARSHIP AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT BASEBALL SCHOLARSHIP IS A BASEBALL SCHOLARSHIP IS A SCHOLARSHIP FROM GOD. SCHOLARSHIP FROM GOD. A A SCHOLARSHIP FOR GOD -- SCHOLARSHIP FOR GOD -- SCHOLARSHIP FROM GOD? SCHOLARSHIP FROM GOD? THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? I WANT TO BE AN ACTOR. I WANT TO BE AN ACTOR. I PROVED I PROVED ALL I NEEDED TO PROVE ALL I NEEDED TO PROVE PLAYING BASEBALL. PLAYING BASEBALL. YOU DON'T WANT A GIRLFRIEND? YOU DON'T WANT A GIRLFRIEND? MAY BE EVENTUALLY I WILL HAVE A MAY BE EVENTUALLY I WILL HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE JUST ONE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE JUST ONE GIRLFRIEND. GIRLFRIEND. YOUR FRESHMAN YEAR OF COLLEGE YOUR FRESHMAN YEAR OF COLLEGE WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. I WANT TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR. I WANT TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR. SO I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I SO I WENT TO COLLEGE AND I STUDIED THEATER. STUDIED THEATER. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A NORMAL I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A NORMAL ACTOR AND I ACTOR AND I WAS CAST IN THE WAS CAST IN THE TEMPEST. TEMPEST. I WAS MAULED BY A BEAST AND I I WAS MAULED BY A BEAST AND I WAS A SWAN. WAS A SWAN. THE SWAN THAT OF MORE FOR SIZES THE SWAN THAT OF MORE FOR SIZES TO PERFECT -- TO PERFECT -- AND THIS IS PERFECT. AND THIS IS PERFECT. THIS CRASHES INTO THE THIS CRASHES INTO THE WORLD. WORLD. THIS THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR IS WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. THE REST OF MY LIFE. IS WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR IS WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. THE REST OF MY LIFE. I WANT TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR SO I I WANT TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR SO I DO IT EVERY NORMAL ACTOR DOES DO IT EVERY NORMAL ACTOR DOES WHEN THEY FINISH COLLEGE. WHEN THEY FINISH COLLEGE. I WOULD SEE THE AGENTS. I WOULD SEE THE AGENTS. IN THIS BUSINESS YOU HAVE TO BE IN THIS BUSINESS YOU HAVE TO BE ALL BUSINESS. ALL BUSINESS. THAT LITTLE KID OVER THERE HAS THAT LITTLE KID OVER THERE HAS BEEN BEEN THAT LITTLE KID OVER THERE HAS THAT LITTLE KID OVER THERE HAS BEEN IN MOVIES OF THE WEEK. BEEN IN MOVIES OF THE WEEK. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR A PIRATE, HAVE YOU GOT A HOOK? SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. A PIRATE, HAVE YOU GOT A HOOK? THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR A PIRATE, HAVE YOU GOT A HOOK? YOU USE TO HAVE A HOOK, WHEN YOU SOMEBODY WITH ONE HAND. SHOULD GET BACK AGAIN BECAUSE YOU CAN BE A PIRATE. A PIRATE, HAVE YOU GOT A HOOK? YOU USE TO HAVE A HOOK, WHEN YOU SHOULD GET BACK AGAIN BECAUSE YOU CAN BE A PIRATE. WHAT ABOUT A ONE ARMED WHAT ABOUT A ONE ARMED GUY GUY? GUY GUY? IT CREEPY PERSON LIKE A CREEPY IT CREEPY PERSON LIKE A CREEPY BEGGAR. BEGGAR. HOW ABOUT A ZOMBIE? HOW ABOUT A ZOMBIE? LET ME SEE YOUR BEST CREEPY LET ME SEE YOUR BEST CREEPY HYPNOTIZING ZOMBIE. HYPNOTIZING ZOMBIE. THAT WAS AWESOME. THAT WAS AWESOME. YOU ARE PERFECT. YOU ARE PERFECT. CREEPY ROLES CREEPY ROLES AND VIOLENT ROLES. AND VIOLENT ROLES. YOU CAN BE A NATIVE AMERICAN. YOU CAN BE A NATIVE AMERICAN. AND I WAS CAST BY A NATIVE AND I WAS CAST BY A NATIVE AMERICAN AMERICAN AMERICAN -- CAST AS A NATIVE AMERICAN -- CAST AS A NATIVE AMERICAN. AMERICAN. THE DIRECTOR WANTED TO USE ME THE DIRECTOR WANTED TO USE ME PROMINENTLY -- TO COME DOWN WITH PROMINENTLY -- TO COME DOWN WITH A SWORD AND CHOP MY FREAKING A SWORD AND CHOP MY FREAKING HANDOFF. HANDOFF. I WOULD GET MY ARM IN BLOOD AND I WOULD GET MY ARM IN BLOOD AND AS THE SOLDIER CAN GET AND SWUNG AS THE SOLDIER CAN GET AND SWUNG HIS SWORD OUT SLING MY ARM OUT, HIS SWORD OUT SLING MY ARM OUT, SPRAYING BLOOD THROUGH THE SPRAYING BLOOD THROUGH THE AUDIENCE. AUDIENCE. I WOULD CRAWL STAGE I WOULD CRAWL STAGE AND FIND A AND FIND A NICE INNOCENT BOY OR GIRL TO NICE INNOCENT BOY OR GIRL TO STARE AT. STARE AT. AS I DIE. AS I DIE. THAT WAS AWESOME. THAT WAS AWESOME. YOU FREAKED THOSE BOYS AND GIRLS OUT FOR LIFE. CONGRATULATIONS. YOU FREAKED THOSE BOYS AND GIRLS OUT FOR LIFE. CONGRATULATIONS. WE ARE FINDING A NICHE FOR YOU. WE ARE FINDING A NICHE FOR YOU. I FOUND YOUR OLD HOOK LOOKING THING. I FOUND YOUR OLD HOOK LOOKING THING. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE DIRECTOR OF SAN ANTONIO. THE DIRECTOR OF SAN ANTONIO. HE'S GOING TO DO ANOTHER MUSICAL HE'S GOING TO DO ANOTHER MUSICAL ABOUT CAPTAIN HOOK. ABOUT CAPTAIN HOOK. DON'T LOOK NOW, YOU ARE CAPTAIN DON'T LOOK NOW, YOU ARE CAPTAIN HOOK. HOOK. I TOLD YOU YOU WOULD BE A I TOLD YOU YOU WOULD BE A PIRATE. PIRATE. AFTER THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE AFTER THAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE ON TELEVISION. ON TELEVISION. THE DREAM THE DREAM OF EVERY ACTOR, PRIME OF EVERY ACTOR, PRIME TIME TELEVISION. TIME TELEVISION. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT THIS ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT THIS THINGY ON. THINGY ON. YOU ARE THE YOU ARE THE WOUNDED WARRIOR, YOU WOUNDED WARRIOR, YOU ARE THE BUS DRIVER BACK FROM ARE THE BUS DRIVER BACK FROM IRAQ. IRAQ. IT'S WHAT YOU ALWAYS WANTED, ISN'T IT? IT'S WHAT YOU ALWAYS WANTED, ISN'T IT? I THOUGHT IF I WAS ON I THOUGHT IF I WAS ON TELEVISION TELEVISION I WOULD BE A NORMAL ACTOR. I WOULD BE A NORMAL ACTOR. I WAS ON TELEVISION BECAUSE OF I WAS ON TELEVISION BECAUSE OF THIS. THIS. EVERYTHING I WAS DOING THIS EVERYTHING I WAS DOING THIS BECAUSE OF THIS. BECAUSE OF THIS. IF I WANTED TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR IF I WANTED TO BE A NORMAL ACTOR MAYBE I DID NEED A LUKE MAYBE I DID NEED A LUKE SKYWALKER HAND. SKYWALKER HAND. I WENT BACK TO I WENT BACK TO THAT ROOM FULL OF THAT ROOM FULL OF DOCTORS, I WENT TO THE CHAIR AT DOCTORS, I WENT TO THE CHAIR AT THE CENTER OF THE ROOM. THE CENTER OF THE ROOM. DR., DR., DR., AND DOCTOR. DR., DR., DR., AND DOCTOR. THIS YOUNG MAN HAS A THIS YOUNG MAN HAS A MALFORMATION OF HIS RIGHT HAND. MALFORMATION OF HIS RIGHT HAND. HE'S AN ACTOR AND HE WANTS TO HE'S AN ACTOR AND HE WANTS TO FEEL NORMAL. FEEL NORMAL. THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATES US THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATES US FROM THE ANIMALS ARE TWO FROM THE ANIMALS ARE TWO OPPOSABLE THUMBS. OPPOSABLE THUMBS. SO LET'S GIVE SO LET'S GIVE THIS YOUNG MAN THIS YOUNG MAN BACK HIS HUMANITY. BACK HIS HUMANITY. I WENT DOWN THAT HALLWAY, AND I WENT DOWN THAT HALLWAY, AND WENT BACK TO THE BASEMENT. WENT BACK TO THE BASEMENT. THE FAMILIAR FEELING OF THE THE FAMILIAR FEELING OF THE PLASTER OF PARIS, HEATING IT AS PLASTER OF PARIS, HEATING IT AS IT BECAME SOLID. IT BECAME SOLID. THIS TIME I WAS THIS TIME I WAS FITTED FOR THE FITTED FOR THE MOST REALISTIC HAND OF THE MOST REALISTIC HAND OF THE MARKET. MARKET. THIS TO TWO SOLID FLESH. THIS TO TWO SOLID FLESH. DAVEY BOY DAVEY BOY , WHAT ARE YOU DOING? , WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU WANT TO BE NORMAL? YOU WANT TO BE NORMAL? NOW YOU NOW YOU ARE LIKE 99.9% OF ALL ARE LIKE 99.9% OF ALL THE ACTORS IN THE WORLD. THE ACTORS IN THE WORLD. THAT IS UNEMPLOYABLE. THAT IS UNEMPLOYABLE. I COULD DO READINGS AND ONE ON I COULD DO READINGS AND ONE ON ONES OFFER NEW MONEY. ONES OFFER NEW MONEY. I CAN BE A NORMAL ACTOR. I CAN BE A NORMAL ACTOR. I AM NOT MADE TO CORDON AMOROUS I AM NOT MADE TO CORDON AMOROUS LOOKING GLASS. LOOKING GLASS. I AM NOT I AM NOT MADE FOR AN AMOROUS MADE FOR AN AMOROUS LOOKING GLASS. LOOKING GLASS. I AM -- I AM -- NOT LIKE IT'S REALLY JUST NOT LIKE IT'S REALLY JUST ACTING. ACTING. I WAS ACTING LIKE I HAD TWO I WAS ACTING LIKE I HAD TWO HANDS. HANDS. CHEATED A FEATURE . CHEATED A FEATURE . UNFINISHED. UNFINISHED. BEFORE MY TIME TO THIS BREATHING BEFORE MY TIME TO THIS BREATHING WORLD. WORLD. SO LAMELY AND UNFASHIONABLE. SO LAMELY AND UNFASHIONABLE. THE DOG SPARK AT ME. THE DOG SPARK AT ME. NO DELIGHT PASS AWAY THE TIME. NO DELIGHT PASS AWAY THE TIME. AND JUST CANT MY OWN DEFORMITY. AND JUST CANT MY OWN DEFORMITY. JUST CAN'T. JUST CAN'T. LOOK AT ME, FOOL. LOOK AT ME, FOOL. THIS IS YOU. THIS IS YOU. AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING NORMAL AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING NORMAL ABOUT YOU IT IS THIS. ABOUT YOU IT IS THIS. YOU SAY THIS IS YOU SAY THIS IS NORMAL THAT I NORMAL THAT I HAVE TO BE CREEPY HAVE TO BE CREEPY ? ? YOU SAY THIS IS NORMAL, I DON'T YOU SAY THIS IS NORMAL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. POP POP POP, POP POP, POP POP HAS BEEN GONE POP HAS BEEN GONE FOR A LONG TIME. FOR A LONG TIME. HOW MICHAEL AND ASK HIM? HOW MICHAEL AND ASK HIM? IT TO YOUR PLAY. IT TO YOUR PLAY. ASK ME ANYTHING YOU LIKE. ASK ME ANYTHING YOU LIKE. HERE WE ARE. HERE WE ARE. YOU KNOW THAT STORY I TOLD JOE YOU KNOW THAT STORY I TOLD JOE THOUGH MY LITTLE LEAGUE THOUGH MY LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL? BASEBALL? THAT WAS JUST A METAPHOR FOR THAT WAS JUST A METAPHOR FOR LIFE. LIFE. WE ALL PLAY THIS GAME OF LIFE. WE ALL PLAY THIS GAME OF LIFE. NO MATTER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCE WE NO MATTER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCE WE FIND OURSELVES IN. FIND OURSELVES IN. BE PROUD OF THE CHOICES YOU MADE BE PROUD OF THE CHOICES YOU MADE , THIS IS WHO YOU ARE. , THIS IS WHO YOU ARE. I ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A SONG AND I ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A SONG AND DANCE MAN. DANCE MAN. YOU GET TO DO THIS. YOU GET TO DO THIS. THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY DIFFERENCES. DIFFERENCES. COMPLETELY AND BEAUTIFULLY COMPLETELY AND BEAUTIFULLY NORMAL. NORMAL. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN I'VE BEEN WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR YOU, I HAVE A JOB LOOKING FOR YOU, I HAVE A JOB FOR YOU. FOR YOU. LET ME GUESS, A NEW SHARK LET ME GUESS, A NEW SHARK VICTIM. VICTIM. -- A SHARK VICTIM IN A NEW JAKE -- A SHARK VICTIM IN A NEW JAKE JILL AND ALL 3-D SHARK MOVIE. JILL AND ALL 3-D SHARK MOVIE. NO, I GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH A NO, I GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH A DIRECTOR AND HE WANTS TO USE YOU DIRECTOR AND HE WANTS TO USE YOU IN HIS NEW MOVIE BECAUSE YOU IN HIS NEW MOVIE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HARRY ASKED. HAVE A HARRY ASKED. -- HAIRY ASS. -- HAIRY ASS. HE SAW YOUR BUSHY EYEBROWS SO HE HE SAW YOUR BUSHY EYEBROWS SO HE FIGURES YOU HAVE A HAIRY ASS. FIGURES YOU HAVE A HAIRY ASS. SO HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT MY SO HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT MY HAND? HAND? YES, HE WANTED TO BE THE YES, HE WANTED TO BE THE HAIRY THONG GUY. HAIRY THONG GUY. THAT'S GOING TO MAKE YOUR MAMA THAT'S GOING TO MAKE YOUR MAMA CRY. CRY. I KNOW, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO I KNOW, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY HAND. WITH MY HAND. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HAIR JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HAIR LIKE A DONKEY YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE A DONKEY YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN A MOVIE. BE IN A MOVIE. EVEN THOUGH IT'S GOING TO MAKE EVEN THOUGH IT'S GOING TO MAKE YOUR MAMA CRY? YOUR MAMA CRY? THAT'S GOING TO BE ON IMDB. THAT'S GOING TO BE ON IMDB. I KNOW, BUT I AM RIGHT HERE I KNOW, BUT I AM RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW PLAYING THIS GAME AS RIGHT NOW PLAYING THIS GAME AS HARD AS I CAN. HARD AS I CAN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] THEM THANK THEM THANK YOU, DAVID. YOU, DAVID. KEEP THE APPLAUSE GOING. KEEP THE APPLAUSE GOING. -- >> THANK YOU, DAVID. -- >> THANK YOU, DAVID. KEEP THE APPLAUSE GOING. KEEP THE APPLAUSE GOING. THAT WAS AMAZING. THAT WAS AMAZING. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE TO TALK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE TO TALK ABOUT, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT ABOUT, HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE WITH ALL KINDS OF EVERYONE WITH ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENCES ARE CONSIDERED DIFFERENCES ARE CONSIDERED NORMAL. NORMAL. THEY ARE ON OUR STAGES AND IN THEY ARE ON OUR STAGES AND IN OUR THEATERS AND GALLERIES. OUR THEATERS AND GALLERIES. I AM WITH THE GREATER PITTSBURGH I AM WITH THE GREATER PITTSBURGH ARTS COUNCIL. ARTS COUNCIL. GREAT FOLKS WHO ARE HERE FOR GREAT FOLKS WHO ARE HERE FOR THOSE WATCHING ONLINE. THOSE WATCHING ONLINE. WE ARE DOING A LITTLE BIT OF WE ARE DOING A LITTLE BIT OF TRANSITION. TRANSITION. I WANTED I WANTED TO TALK THROUGH A BIT TO TALK THROUGH A BIT OF WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY. OF WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY. MOSTLY IT IS DUE TO MOSTLY IT IS DUE TO -- WHO JUST -- WHO JUST INTUITIVELY KNOWS INTUITIVELY KNOWS JUSTICE HAS JUSTICE HAS BEEN A DISABILITY ADVOCATE FOR BEEN A DISABILITY ADVOCATE FOR SO LONG AND KNOWS SO LONG AND KNOWS THE IMPORTANCE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS CONVERSATION AND HOW OF THIS CONVERSATION AND HOW DEEPLY IMPORTANT IT IS TO TALK DEEPLY IMPORTANT IT IS TO TALK ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY. ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY. WE CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT WE CAN'T JUST TALK ABOUT AUDIENCES AND ACCESS, WHICH IS AUDIENCES AND ACCESS, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT WE ALL KNOW. SO IMPORTANT WE ALL KNOW. BUT IF OUR BUT IF OUR STAGES DON'T REFLECT STAGES DON'T REFLECT ALL PEOPLE, THIS ART WE ARE ALL PEOPLE, THIS ART WE ARE DOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD DOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD -- -- ANOTHER THREAD THAT CAME THROUGH ANOTHER THREAD THAT CAME THROUGH WAS JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS WAS JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO TO CONTINUE TO PUSH YOURSELVES CONTINUE TO PUSH YOURSELVES . . IT IS AGAIN DIVERSE IN OTHER IT IS AGAIN DIVERSE IN OTHER WAYS. WAYS. AROUND AROUND GENDER, AROUND INCLUSION. GENDER, AROUND INCLUSION. WE ARE THINKING ABOUT ALL THOSE WE ARE THINKING ABOUT ALL THOSE IDENTITIES YOU HAVE. IDENTITIES YOU HAVE. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU PUT YOU PUT THAT IN THE SPACE. THAT IN THE SPACE. IT TAKES THE TENSION AND IT IT TAKES THE TENSION AND IT TAKES TIME AND EFFORT. TAKES TIME AND EFFORT. AND ALL OF THE THINGS WE DO AND AND ALL OF THE THINGS WE DO AND ACCESS WHERE WE ARE REALLY ACCESS WHERE WE ARE REALLY INVITING PEOPLE, CHANGING THE INVITING PEOPLE, CHANGING THE CULTURE AND THE WAY WE DO THINGS CULTURE AND THE WAY WE DO THINGS SO THAT EVERYONE IS PART OF WHAT SO THAT EVERYONE IS PART OF WHAT WE ARE DOING. WE ARE DOING. IT IS EXCITING. IT IS EXCITING. IT IT MAKES OUR LIVES SO MUCH MAKES OUR LIVES SO MUCH RICHER THAN IT WOULD BE RICHER THAN IT WOULD BE IF WE IF WE DID NOT. DID NOT. I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THE PEOPLE I AM SO EXCITED ABOUT THE PEOPLE WE HAVE HERE TODAY. WE HAVE HERE TODAY. I'M SO EXCITED WE ARE LIVE I'M SO EXCITED WE ARE LIVE STREAMING THIS SO IT CAN BE STREAMING THIS SO IT CAN BE ARCHIVED. ARCHIVED. WE HAVE MOMENTS WHERE IT IS WE HAVE MOMENTS WHERE IT IS POSSIBLY WORKING AND WHERE IT IS POSSIBLY WORKING AND WHERE IT IS NOT. NOT. JUST BEAR WITH US FOR A MOMENT JUST BEAR WITH US FOR A MOMENT AND WE LOOK AT STARTED IN A AND WE LOOK AT STARTED IN A MINUTE. MINUTE. >> HI, EVERYONE. >> HI, EVERYONE. WE ARE GOING TO GET STARTED. WE ARE GOING TO GET STARTED. IF EVERYONE CAN PLEASE TAKE YOUR IF EVERYONE CAN PLEASE TAKE YOUR SEATS. SEATS. GREAT. GREAT. AS YOU CAN SEE, WE FOUND A AS YOU CAN SEE, WE FOUND A SOLUTION, THANKS TO THE LOVELY SOLUTION, THANKS TO THE LOVELY GENTLEMAN WHO LIFTED REAGAN UP, GENTLEMAN WHO LIFTED REAGAN UP, WHICH, BY THE WAY, WAS REAGAN'S WHICH, BY THE WAY, WAS REAGAN'S PREFERENCE BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO PREFERENCE BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO MAKE SURE ALL OF YOU COULD SEE MAKE SURE ALL OF YOU COULD SEE US. US. THAT IS HOW WE MAKE STUFF WORK. THAT IS HOW WE MAKE STUFF WORK. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] AS ACTORS, THIS WAS NOT AS ACTORS, THIS WAS NOT HOW I HOW I INTENDED TO START THIS, BUT I INTENDED TO START THIS, BUT I WILL START WILL START here since it is good place to here since it is good place to start it. start it. As disabled actors, it is a As disabled actors, it is a constant negotiation for us. constant negotiation for us. You just saw that inaction. You just saw that inaction. Thank you, Reagan. Thank you, Reagan. I am going to start by I am going to start by introducing myself and my introducing myself and my esteemed colleagues and tell you esteemed colleagues and tell you a little bit about inclusion in a little bit about inclusion in the arts. the arts. David, you just saw, his amazing David, you just saw, his amazing performance, my name is performance, my name is Christine Bruno. Christine Bruno. I am an actor. I am an actor. I am also a disability advocate I am also a disability advocate for an organization called for an organization called inclusion in the arts. inclusion in the arts. We are a nonprofit based in New We are a nonprofit based in New York City. York City. In a net shell, I reason for In a net shell, I reason for existence is to promote the full existence is to promote the full inclusion of actors of color and inclusion of actors of color and actors with his in film, actors with his in film, theater, television and related theater, television and related industries. industries. We have been around for 30 We have been around for 30 years. years. We were originally founded in We were originally founded in 1986 to address problems of 1986 to address problems of racism and exclusion in the racism and exclusion in the industry, and our current industry, and our current executive director, Sharon executive director, Sharon Jenson, when she came on board Jenson, when she came on board in 1989, felt it was important in 1989, felt it was important to add disability to that to add disability to that diversity conversation. diversity conversation. Basically, essentially poured Basically, essentially poured the entire life of our the entire life of our organization, disability has organization, disability has played in integral role in any played in integral role in any conversation that we have about conversation that we have about diversity. diversity. Quickly, a little bit about what Quickly, a little bit about what David and I do, I started in the David and I do, I started in the organization in 2005 because organization in 2005 because Sharon felt, rightly so, that Sharon felt, rightly so, that disability was -- while the disability was -- while the conversation of race and conversation of race and ethnicity was moving forward by ethnicity was moving forward by the time I started in 2001 the time I started in 2001 , , 2005, the conversation about 2005, the conversation about race and ethnicity had moved race and ethnicity had moved significantly forward. significantly forward. As we know, there is still a lot As we know, there is still a lot of work to do. of work to do. The conversation about The conversation about disability had not moved forward disability had not moved forward . . She felt like they really needed She felt like they really needed to be a specific person in place to be a specific person in place to sort of help usher to sort of help usher decision-makers into working decision-makers into working with our disabilities and with our disabilities and whatever that entails from whatever that entails from casting referrals, to consulting casting referrals, to consulting about scripts, consulting about about scripts, consulting about accessibility issues, accessible accessibility issues, accessible audition spaces, hiring audition spaces, hiring interpreters, and about interpreters, and about dispelling myths and assumptions dispelling myths and assumptions of what artists with of what artists with disabilities are capable of in disabilities are capable of in general. general. That sort of days the mind That sort of days the mind function. function. -- sort of is the mind function. -- sort of is the mind function. David came on in 2009 and he is David came on in 2009 and he is the programming associate, so the programming associate, so our job together is to our job together is to increase the opportunities for increase the opportunities for artists with disabilities on artists with disabilities on stages, screens. stages, screens. I would say about 60% of our job I would say about 60% of our job is casting referrals, meaning we is casting referrals, meaning we get calls from casting directors get calls from casting directors , decision-makers looking for , decision-makers looking for talent with disabilities for talent with disabilities for specific jobs. specific jobs. Other 40% is things like Other 40% is things like this, this, our advocacy, going out into our advocacy, going out into communities, speaking at great communities, speaking at great conferences like these and conferences like these and others, just making people more others, just making people more aware. aware. I think strides have been made, I think strides have been made, as it can see from the increase as it can see from the increase in the participation. in the participation. Betty, did we say up to 450? Betty, did we say up to 450? 470. 470. That is amazing. That is amazing. I conversation here I conversation here today, like today, like Tiffany said, is to speak not Tiffany said, is to speak not necessarily to an audience necessarily to an audience participation, but to the artist participation, but to the artist with disabilities components and with disabilities components and getting artists on our stages. getting artists on our stages. We are so lucky today to have We are so lucky today to have Reagan. Reagan. I do not know for those of you I do not know for those of you who were here Thursday night, who were here Thursday night, but you sought Reagan's amazing but you sought Reagan's amazing performance. performance. REgan is here to speak about her REgan is here to speak about her work as an actor, specifically work as an actor, specifically around with Oregon Shakespeare around with Oregon Shakespeare Festival, and this is JULIE Festival, and this is JULIE SIMON SIMON from the Shakespeare Festival. from the Shakespeare Festival. You are at access coordinator, You are at access coordinator, so we will just have an informal so we will just have an informal conversation with julie and conversation with julie and regan and then I open it up to regan and then I open it up to questions. questions. I had a great conversation with I had a great conversation with julie and julie and regan 1.5 weeks ago regan 1.5 weeks ago about their specific experiences about their specific experiences on working with this and how to on working with this and how to navigate that landscape with navigate that landscape with being an artist a disability in being an artist a disability in a major theatrical institution a major theatrical institution that has a long and that has a long and distinguished history of working distinguished history of working with artists and bringing with artists and bringing disabled artist into the disabled artist into the folds, folds, so we will talk a little bit so we will talk a little bit about that. about that. I would like to start -- excuse I would like to start -- excuse me, my research, I found that me, my research, I found that OFS OFS has a value statement on has a value statement on their website, and they have 1, their website, and they have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 core principles, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 core principles, and I will redo the core and I will redo the core principles. principles. They are, excellence, They are, excellence, inclusion, inclusion, learning, financial health, learning, financial health, heritage, environmental heritage, environmental responsibility, and company. responsibility, and company. They say these are the values we They say these are the values we hold at the Oregon Shakespeare hold at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Festival. They are the center of They are the center of everything we do and describe everything we do and describe how we work together. how we work together. While he recognize the need for While he recognize the need for balance, his values guide us in balance, his values guide us in all of our decisions. all of our decisions. I will redo their -- I will redo their -- Read you Read you there conversation. there conversation. We believe the inclusion of We believe the inclusion of diversity of people, diversity of people, ideas, ideas, cultures, and it enriches both cultures, and it enriches both their insights into the work we their insights into the work we present on stage and our present on stage and our relationships with each other. relationships with each other. If anyone has ever been to If anyone has ever been to OSF, OSF, and I'm sure you all know about and I'm sure you all know about OSF, OSF, in doing my research, I in doing my research, I found that they have actually found that they have actually done a significant amount of done a significant amount of work around issues of diversity work around issues of diversity and inclusion in recent years. and inclusion in recent years. These are just some of the These are just some of the things that they have done. things that they have done. Like I just read the value Like I just read the value statement. statement. They have an audience They have an audience development manifesto, which development manifesto, which they developed in 2010. they developed in 2010. And I write about that? And I write about that? -- right about that? -- right about that? They have a disability inclusion They have a disability inclusion planning Council. planning Council. They hired the diversity They hired the diversity consultant. consultant. They They created a coronation created a coronation expert, and how long have they expert, and how long have they had that? had that? Julie: Julie: I think the have had an I think the have had an access coordinator position for access coordinator position for quite a while but it was quite a while but it was part-time and has grown. part-time and has grown. Christine: the established Christine: the established action committees, access action committees, access committees for audiences, committees for audiences, affinity groups, the development affinity groups, the development of the open dialogue series, and of the open dialogue series, and what we talk about today, the what we talk about today, the hiring of death and disabled hiring of death and disabled artist on stage and behind the artist on stage and behind the stage in artistic decisions. stage in artistic decisions. If you just go down that list, If you just go down that list, that is pretty impressive that is pretty impressive commitment. commitment. Two issues of diversity and Two issues of diversity and inclusion, and I would like inclusion, and I would like Julie and Julie and Regan to talk about Regan to talk about their experiences working at OSF their experiences working at OSF . . The first in our like to know is The first in our like to know is how did both of you come to work how did both of you come to work at OSF? at OSF? We will start with Julie. We will start with Julie. Julie: good morning. Julie: good morning. I became the access port Nader I became the access port Nader in March, though, this is my in March, though, this is my seventh season with OSF. seventh season with OSF. The first five seasons, I was The first five seasons, I was the lead interpreter for the the lead interpreter for the deaf factor in the company deaf factor in the company during his or her sows, but I during his or her sows, but I have also been a patron for over have also been a patron for over 30 years. 30 years. That is how I came to know about That is how I came to know about OSF. OSF. As access services coordinator, As access services coordinator, most of my job is outward most of my job is outward facing. facing. I work with patrons. I work with patrons. We provide audio description, We provide audio description, open captioning, interpretive open captioning, interpretive performances, working with performances, working with patrons who have disability patrons who have disability issues and work mostly with the issues and work mostly with the box office commission that box office commission that patrons are seated where they patrons are seated where they can enjoy the performances. can enjoy the performances. At OSF, as At OSF, as Christine mentioned, Christine mentioned, we have the audience development we have the audience development manifesto. manifesto. We have open dialogue forums, We have open dialogue forums, which occur every two weeks on which occur every two weeks on various topics around access various topics around access disability, diversity inclusion disability, diversity inclusion for all aspects of the company. for all aspects of the company. We do not necessarily have one We do not necessarily have one person the company who deals person the company who deals with accessibility for company with accessibility for company members, but there are a number members, but there are a number of us in the company who do work of us in the company who do work on that as part of our jobs. on that as part of our jobs. Christine: Christine: you have another you have another component to your job, which is component to your job, which is it your job as axis court Nader. it your job as axis court Nader. Could you talk about you working Could you talk about you working with Howie? with Howie? Julie: the first five seasons I Julie: the first five seasons I was at OSF, I was the lead was at OSF, I was the lead interpreter, side to have interpreter, side to have perspective from the company perspective from the company side. side. When Howie was offered a When Howie was offered a contract, the artistic team contract, the artistic team realized they needed to hire realized they needed to hire interpreters. interpreters. He started in 2009 and my first He started in 2009 and my first -- we worked closely with the -- we worked closely with the costume department to make sure costume department to make sure that his needs were met in terms that his needs were met in terms of communication. of communication. Part of the commitment to Part of the commitment to diversity around hiring death diversity around hiring death artists -- deaf artists artists -- deaf artists is is hiring interpreters. hiring interpreters. For the first couple of seasons, For the first couple of seasons, OSF relied on local interpreters. OSF relied on local interpreters. If any of you have been to If any of you have been to Ashland, Oregon, we are in the Ashland, Oregon, we are in the southern part of the state and southern part of the state and it is very rural. it is very rural. We have a small local deaf We have a small local deaf community and a small community and a small interpreting community. interpreting community. Howie's first season, they Howie's first season, they relied on local interpreters relied on local interpreters with other jobs and I do not with other jobs and I do not know that he had full coverage know that he had full coverage for all rehearsals. for all rehearsals. I was brought down during his I was brought down during his second season for three-month second season for three-month period to cover his for her soul period to cover his for her soul period cash to cover his period cash to cover his rehearsal -- to cover his rehearsal -- to cover his reversal period and then I moved reversal period and then I moved to Ashland, so I was one of the to Ashland, so I was one of the local interpreters. local interpreters. We also did need to bring We also did need to bring interpreters and provided the interpreters and provided the area because those of us who area because those of us who were local head of their jobs were local head of their jobs and were not available as much and were not available as much as needed. as needed. OSF also used it OSF also used it sign coach the sign coach the last couple of seasons to work last couple of seasons to work with the other actors in the with the other actors in the company on translating airlines company on translating airlines and teaching them their lines and teaching them their lines and sign language, so we needed and sign language, so we needed to provide interpreting to provide interpreting languages for the coach and at languages for the coach and at the same time that Howie was in the same time that Howie was in her soul. her soul. We worked really hard to develop We worked really hard to develop a team of interpreters to make sure that the communication a team of interpreters to make sure that the communication needs of everyone were being needs of everyone were being met. met. It is a process. It is a process. It takes commitment. It takes commitment. Not just the LaSalle quickly put Not just the LaSalle quickly put financially. financially. -- not just philosophically but -- not just philosophically but financially. financially. We have been fortunate at OSF We have been fortunate at OSF that we have been able to cover that we have been able to cover the communication needs that we the communication needs that we needed to cover and OSF has needed to cover and OSF has provided that financial support. provided that financial support. Christine: what -- because you Christine: what -- because you have been working with Howi e have been working with Howi e for a number of years and I did for a number of years and I did not say his Glassman, Howie not say his Glassman, Howie Segoe, and he is going into Segoe, and he is going into his seventh season with OSF? his seventh season with OSF? Julie: Howie is not currently Julie: Howie is not currently in the OSF but he will be in the OSF but he will be back. back. Christine: seven, amazing. Christine: seven, amazing. What are some of the -- quickly, What are some of the -- quickly, what our couple of the what our couple of the interpretive based lessons that interpretive based lessons that you have learned through that you have learned through that process of figuring out what the process of figuring out what the best situation would be for best situation would be for Howie to meet his artistic Howie to meet his artistic needs? needs? Julie: one of the things is Julie: one of the things is talking to Howie. talking to Howie. Talking to him directly to find Talking to him directly to find out what his needs are. out what his needs are. It is important to realize that It is important to realize that it is not the deaf actor or it is not the deaf actor or coach to find the providers but coach to find the providers but I think it is important they be I think it is important they be involved in the process. involved in the process. Howie was they clear about what Howie was they clear about what you wanted. you wanted. When we were looking for When we were looking for interpreters to bring in from interpreters to bring in from out of the area for three-month out of the area for three-month period, we send out -- we worked period, we send out -- we worked with HR, sent out the job with HR, sent out the job announcement, and I worked with announcement, and I worked with the producer for the company to the producer for the company to screen the applications and screen the applications and applicants, and then we applicants, and then we forwarded the three finalists to forwarded the three finalists to Howie and yet a Howie and yet a Sk -- and had a Sk -- and had a Skype call with them and he Skype call with them and he talked to them directly and made talked to them directly and made sure the skills that they had sure the skills that they had where meeting his needs. where meeting his needs. And then he told us who he And then he told us who he recommended and then we did it recommended and then we did it that way. that way. It is very important to make It is very important to make sure that the deaf artist is a sure that the deaf artist is a involved in the process involved in the process but not the one who us to go out but not the one who us to go out and find the service providers. and find the service providers. That was something. That was something. Over the course of the time that Over the course of the time that Howie was Howie was in the company for six in the company for six seasons, his needs changed seasons, his needs changed depending on the kind of roles depending on the kind of roles he had, the size of the roles, he had, the size of the roles, with the needs of the production with the needs of the production where, so it was important to where, so it was important to make sure that the interpreters make sure that the interpreters you with those changes were and you with those changes were and they would have a staff meeting. they would have a staff meeting. It also meant I was doing the It also meant I was doing the scheduling as lead interpreter, scheduling as lead interpreter, so I would meet with so I would meet with interpreters at the top of rehearsal and have the stage interpreters at the top of rehearsal and have the stage manager from Howie's manager from Howie's show come show come to talk to us and make sure we to talk to us and make sure we were on the same page in terms were on the same page in terms of communication access. of communication access. Howie was responsible for his Howie was responsible for his own actor needs, just like the own actor needs, just like the other actors, but we wanted to other actors, but we wanted to make sure that communication was make sure that communication was clear. clear. Howie was the one who explained Howie was the one who explained to the rest of the company and to the rest of the company and to his cast members what his can to his cast members what his can indication needs were. indication needs were. Which is provided the Which is provided the interpretation, and I think one interpretation, and I think one of the really nice benefits is of the really nice benefits is that everyone got used to having that everyone got used to having interpreters in the room, so interpreters in the room, so that when we had interpreted that when we had interpreted performances, the actors in the performances, the actors in the company and the stage manager company and the stage manager were used to having signers were used to having signers there, which was a nice benefit. there, which was a nice benefit. It was not only the benefit of It was not only the benefit of the cast members or general the cast members or general acting company because we acting company because we usually have between 90 and 100 usually have between 90 and 100 actors in rotating repertory actors in rotating repertory theater every season theater every season . . It was a benefit to our patrons It was a benefit to our patrons when they came to see when they came to see interpretive performances. interpretive performances. Christine: thank you. Christine: thank you. Regan, how did you come to OSF? Regan, how did you come to OSF? Regan: how did I come to OSF? Regan: how did I come to OSF? In a wheelchair. In a wheelchair. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] No, I think -- so I started No, I think -- so I started out out in Denver, Colorado. in Denver, Colorado. I was working with a group I was working with a group called family, which hopefully some of you are familiar with. called family, which hopefully some of you are familiar with. It is the company that works It is the company that works exclusively with actors with all exclusively with actors with all types of disabilities. types of disabilities. I was performing with them, I was performing with them, decided to go to graduate decided to go to graduate school. school. I went to UC San Diego. I went to UC San Diego. There was a bit of a There was a bit of a relationship between some of the relationship between some of the professors at UC San Diego and professors at UC San Diego and OSF, so Scott Kaiser, the OSF, so Scott Kaiser, the development -- I don't know what development -- I don't know what his official title is -- but he his official title is -- but he is responsible for going out and is responsible for going out and scouting talent and developing scouting talent and developing the company. the company. He came down to San Diego. He came down to San Diego. Ironically, for those of you who Ironically, for those of you who saw me, saw me in "glass saw me, saw me in "glass menagerie." menagerie." It just kind of happened that I It just kind of happened that I became aware of OSF, they became became aware of OSF, they became aware of me. aware of me. I was not cast immediately right I was not cast immediately right out of graduate school in 2013, out of graduate school in 2013, but one year later, I auditioned but one year later, I auditioned for Joy Dixon, the casting for Joy Dixon, the casting director in Los Angeles, and was director in Los Angeles, and was cast. cast. I was not the first wheelchair I was not the first wheelchair user ever to be cast at OSF. user ever to be cast at OSF. There was another actor in the There was another actor in the 1990's. 1990's. You said that you remembered. You said that you remembered. Christine: I said his name the Christine: I said his name the other day. other day. Regan: Kenneth Crow. Regan: Kenneth Crow. He was -- he had been in the He was -- he had been in the production of "Midsummer Night's production of "Midsummer Night's Dream" in the 1990's but I was Dream" in the 1990's but I was the first repertoire actor hired the first repertoire actor hired and the important distinction is and the important distinction is that sometimes for artists that sometimes for artists with with disabilities, it can feel like disabilities, it can feel like we are brought in when it fits we are brought in when it fits for a one production here, one for a one production here, one production there, as opposed to production there, as opposed to saying, you are a well-rounded saying, you are a well-rounded artist and you have the ability artist and you have the ability to transform and be in different to transform and be in different productions, so I was cast into productions, so I was cast into different productions at OSF different productions at OSF last year. last year. One was "much Ado One was "much Ado ABout ABout Nothing," and one was a Nothing," and one was a Taiwanese play. Taiwanese play. I will also notes that one of I will also notes that one of the first unique experiences of the first unique experiences of OSF is that I have been cast as OSF is that I have been cast as an understudy. an understudy. Most of the repertory actors are Most of the repertory actors are cast as understudy's for one cast as understudy's for one wall or to roll, so I was cast wall or to roll, so I was cast to have an understanding in "Ant to have an understanding in "Ant ony and Cleopatra," which ony and Cleopatra," which was on the outdoor stage, and I was on the outdoor stage, and I realized the role I was realized the role I was supposed supposed to study was on both levels of to study was on both levels of the Elizabethan stage in the the Elizabethan stage in the second level was not accessible, second level was not accessible, so my understanding was so my understanding was canceled. canceled. That was one of the first That was one of the first experiences that OSF had experiences that OSF had of -- of -- had of " had of " OH, casting someone with OH, casting someone with a disability takes more into a disability takes more into what functions they will have." what functions they will have." The previous year, when involved The previous year, when involved race. race. Somebody had been cast and then Somebody had been cast and then all of a sudden, they realized all of a sudden, they realized that this was potentially not that this was potentially not racially appropriate casting for racially appropriate casting for the understudy. the understudy. It is not just disability that It is not just disability that they have had that experience they have had that experience with. with. But that is a little bit about But that is a little bit about how I came to OSF. how I came to OSF. I will also mention that when I I will also mention that when I came to OSF, generally, the came to OSF, generally, the environment, aside from environment, aside from Elizabethan was fairly Elizabethan was fairly accessible. accessible. They did renovate an apartment They did renovate an apartment because at OSF, actors are because at OSF, actors are housed by the company, and they housed by the company, and they did not have any accessible did not have any accessible -- -- wheelchair accessible housing, wheelchair accessible housing, so they renovated an apartment, so they renovated an apartment, which they also felt was a long time coming in general. which they also felt was a long time coming in general. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] They gave them the opportunity They gave them the opportunity to get that. to get that. I gave them the opportunity to I gave them the opportunity to do that. do that. There were various things that There were various things that they did and it did not take a they did and it did not take a huge additional financial huge additional financial commitment of any kind. commitment of any kind. The accommodations that it took The accommodations that it took to bring me into the company to bring me into the company were very small. were very small. I just want to emphasize that I just want to emphasize that because of think that is often a because of think that is often a misconception, that it will take misconception, that it will take a huge financial decision and a huge financial decision and that is not always the case. that is not always the case. Christine: I want to also Christine: I want to also mention that in your biography, mention that in your biography, you are the first wheelchair you are the first wheelchair user to graduate from UC user to graduate from UC SD? SD? From the acting program. From the acting program. Regan: yes, I was the first to Regan: yes, I was the first to be brought into the MFA be brought into the MFA program program at San Diego. at San Diego. When I was researching, I found When I was researching, I found approximately five people that approximately five people that had gone through some of the top had gone through some of the top graduate MFA acting programs graduate MFA acting programs across the country that have across the country that have disabilities. disabilities. It felt like a pretty big deal It felt like a pretty big deal to have a wheelchair represented to have a wheelchair represented in one of those companies. in one of those companies. I will just mention that since I I will just mention that since I have been there, the couple have been there, the couple years after I graduated, the years after I graduated, the tick another actor who has tick another actor who has cerebral palsy -- took another cerebral palsy -- took another actor who has cerebral palsy. actor who has cerebral palsy. One of my friends is a One of my friends is a quadriplegic and he is in the quadriplegic and he is in the PHd program there, so I'll just PHd program there, so I'll just give a shout out that UCSD is give a shout out that UCSD is starting to bring actors with starting to bring actors with disabilities into the program. disabilities into the program. Christine: can you talk a little Christine: can you talk a little bit about what the actual bit about what the actual experience was like on a experience was like on a day-to-day basis, and I figured day-to-day basis, and I figured the campus, or her soul -- the campus, or her soul -- navigating campus, rehearsal navigating campus, rehearsal progress, and the issues in progress, and the issues in terms of you did not have terms of you did not have someone to go to? someone to go to? For instance, Howie had Julie as For instance, Howie had Julie as his point person because there his point person because there was already groundwork laid was already groundwork laid because they had worked with because they had worked with Howie before. Howie before. By the time you get to the fifth By the time you get to the fifth or sixth season, there is a or sixth season, there is a protocol. protocol. I do not know for sure because I I do not know for sure because I wasn't able to find this out in wasn't able to find this out in research whether they have research whether they have actually hired anyone with actually hired anyone with disabilities since I saw Ken Cr disabilities since I saw Ken Cr ow 20 years ago. ow 20 years ago. Regan: I did a lot of asking Regan: I did a lot of asking around to try to figure out around to try to figure out answers to those questions. answers to those questions. As far as I understood As far as I understood , I did , I did not believe there was somebody. not believe there was somebody. He did the production of He did the production of "welcome Home Jenny "welcome Home Jenny Suder," do Suder," do you know if the actor had you know if the actor had disability? disability? There was a play about the There was a play about the returning veteran who had to disability, and I am not sure returning veteran who had to disability, and I am not sure whether the actor that was cast whether the actor that was cast actually had a disability. actually had a disability. I think she did but it was not I think she did but it was not wheelchair based. wheelchair based. Anyway, in general, one thing to Anyway, in general, one thing to be aware of is that OSF is on be aware of is that OSF is on the cutting edge of a lot of the cutting edge of a lot of inclusive diversity work. inclusive diversity work. However, I think there would be However, I think there would be the first to admit also that in the first to admit also that in the pantheon of diversity and the pantheon of diversity and inclusion, disability has been inclusion, disability has been kind of the lost one to make it kind of the lost one to make it into the mix, and they are into the mix, and they are working on changing that. working on changing that. When it comes to the acting When it comes to the acting company, there is a company, there is a representation of actors that representation of actors that have disabilities, nonvisible have disabilities, nonvisible disabilities, but I think H disabilities, but I think H owie has been one of the main owie has been one of the main individuals who has started to individuals who has started to change the tradition of, change the tradition of, disability is also about -- disability is also about -- particularly when you work in a particularly when you work in a visual medium or something visual medium or something representation or in terms of representation or in terms of what we take in in front of us what we take in in front of us -- that the civil -- that visual -- that the civil -- that visual representation is important, representation is important, whether comes from whether comes from communication, mobility, so that communication, mobility, so that was something -- and I will also was something -- and I will also throw in. throw in. It is something It is something I have I have experienced a lot with the experienced a lot with the wheelchair. wheelchair. One of my friends who was one of One of my friends who was one of the founders of the founders of Family, she Family, she said, it is funny that broadly said, it is funny that broadly can get these multimillion can get these multimillion dollar take elephants on stage dollar take elephants on stage but they cannot get a wheelchair but they cannot get a wheelchair on stage. on stage. That is light years to this That is light years to this morning, I know there are morning, I know there are different philosophies about different philosophies about when technology breaks down and when technology breaks down and had to meet, date, but one of my had to meet, date, but one of my big passions is to emphasize big passions is to emphasize there is always the way. there is always the way. As long as there are other human As long as there are other human beings who are created and we beings who are created and we can work as a community, there can work as a community, there is always a way to get a is always a way to get a performer with a disability on a performer with a disability on a stage. stage. I I think it just takes some think it just takes some ingenuity and sometimes manpower ingenuity and sometimes manpower or woman power. or woman power. That is why I chose That is why I chose to to accommodate this morning the way accommodate this morning the way I did of saying, pick me up and I did of saying, pick me up and put meat on the stage because I put meat on the stage because I think that is often, at least my think that is often, at least my experience in a wheelchair, that experience in a wheelchair, that is how we do it. is how we do it. At OSF, one of the environmental At OSF, one of the environmental challenges is that the dressing challenges is that the dressing rooms in the theater, or did rooms in the theater, or did both of my shows last year, our both of my shows last year, our downstairs and this stage is up downstairs and this stage is up one level. one level. Every time I went to the stage, Every time I went to the stage, I had to take an elevator that I had to take an elevator that is shared by the costume crew, is shared by the costume crew, that is taken costumes up and that is taken costumes up and down, and Bill down, and Bill , bless his heart, , bless his heart, I gave him a wheelchair tour at I gave him a wheelchair tour at the end of my time because I the end of my time because I thought, it is important that thought, it is important that you understand the route that we you understand the route that we take us wheelchair users. take us wheelchair users. He was very surprised by a lot He was very surprised by a lot of it. of it. He visited a couple of places He visited a couple of places that he had never been to that he had never been to because he did not have to take because he did not have to take that wheeling routes. that wheeling routes. He also did not realize that I He also did not realize that I had to take an elevator every had to take an elevator every time I wanted to get on stage. time I wanted to get on stage. Luckily, there was only one show Luckily, there was only one show during the season for which the during the season for which the elevator did not function. elevator did not function. At that moment, it was about two At that moment, it was about two thirds of the way through the thirds of the way through the show and a half to get on stage, show and a half to get on stage, so stay chance pick me up and so stay chance pick me up and carried me up the stairs. carried me up the stairs. In general, the environment In general, the environment was was -- is not entirely accessible. -- is not entirely accessible. I think the attitude of OSF was I think the attitude of OSF was very proactive in terms of very proactive in terms of coming to me. coming to me. As we mentioned before, there is As we mentioned before, there is not a point person for an acting not a point person for an acting company member or the company company member or the company member, for instance, Michael is member, for instance, Michael is the headlining designer at OSF the headlining designer at OSF and uses a wheelchair, but there and uses a wheelchair, but there is not a person that is is not a person that is designated specifically to designated specifically to be be that point person for acting that point person for acting company members and deal with company members and deal with access issues, so it was a lot access issues, so it was a lot of cobbling together, well, do of cobbling together, well, do you go to the stage manager for you go to the stage manager for this? this? To go to the box office or To go to the box office or safety manager? safety manager? That was sometimes challenging, That was sometimes challenging, of feeling like there was an of feeling like there was an issue and I don't know where to issue and I don't know where to address it. address it. One other thing and then I will One other thing and then I will pass it along. pass it along. I am sorry for monopolizing. I am sorry for monopolizing. There is, was an access There is, was an access committee when I arrived at OSF. committee when I arrived at OSF. That is how I met Julie the That is how I met Julie the first time, which was intended first time, which was intended to address issues of access at to address issues of access at OSF, but I think OSF, but I think -- I found that -- I found that sometimes they were addressing sometimes they were addressing issues more dealing with the issues more dealing with the patronage as opposed to the patronage as opposed to the artist concerns, and I think artist concerns, and I think that is something OSF has that is something OSF has realized. realized. That is what I will say. That is what I will say. Christine: I have a quick Christine: I have a quick question bouncing off of what question bouncing off of what Regan just said. Regan just said. The fact that there is no real The fact that there is no real point person for members of the point person for members of the acting company with acting company with disabilities, did any of that disabilities, did any of that sort of inadvertently fall on sort of inadvertently fall on you as access core needed for you as access core needed for patrons? patrons? How do you navigate that and How do you navigate that and what suggestions would you have what suggestions would you have for rectifying that? for rectifying that? Julie: I have only been the Julie: I have only been the access core Nader since March, access core Nader since March, so my tenure has been pretty so my tenure has been pretty short. short. I think what has happened in the I think what has happened in the past is that company past is that company members members would go to their own would go to their own department, so it was the department, so it was the company member in the production company member in the production shop, production building or box shop, production building or box office and they would go to office and they would go to their own supervisor and it their own supervisor and it might end up at HR or somewhere might end up at HR or somewhere else. else. I am happy to serve as a I am happy to serve as a resource to company members. resource to company members. My job is outward facing and I My job is outward facing and I do focus on patrons, but I do do focus on patrons, but I do work with other departments. work with other departments. In terms of the open dialogue In terms of the open dialogue form we were talking about form we were talking about earlier, I hosted the open earlier, I hosted the open dialogue forum two weeks ago. dialogue forum two weeks ago. It was in conjunction with for It was in conjunction with for interpretive performance -- interpretive performance -- four interpretive performances four interpretive performances and I asked if I could post the and I asked if I could post the open dialogue series during that open dialogue series during that week because he had all of our week because he had all of our performance interpretive in performance interpretive in town. town. Performance interpreters were Performance interpreters were there, caption there, caption operators, and operators, and company members from all company members from all departments, and we were talking departments, and we were talking about general access issues. about general access issues. It was not just about patrons. It was not just about patrons. It was not just about the daef It was not just about the daef community -- deaf community community -- deaf community or actors, and they brought up or actors, and they brought up would we go to if we are a would we go to if we are a company member and we have these company member and we have these issues? issues? That topic of conversation is That topic of conversation is now on the four friends, and we now on the four friends, and we will keep that going. will keep that going. -- forefront and we'll keep that -- forefront and we'll keep that going. going. OSF has had a diversity OSF has had a diversity consultant for several years, consultant for several years, Carmen Morgan. Carmen Morgan. There is a diversity and There is a diversity and planning Council, of which I planning Council, of which I remember and I have been on the remember and I have been on the committee for three seasons. committee for three seasons. Most of the talk Most of the talk is not around is not around accessibility issues. accessibility issues. There are a couple of us who are There are a couple of us who are trying to change that and that trying to change that and that was part of the reason I wanted was part of the reason I wanted to host the open dialogue to host the open dialogue series, to talk about access series, to talk about access issues and what that means for issues and what that means for company members, patrons, and company members, patrons, and what does that look like? what does that look like? Not everybody has a visible Not everybody has a visible disability. disability. One of the other really nice One of the other really nice things that we have a OSF are things that we have a OSF are affinity groups. affinity groups. We have four public and several We have four public and several private and we have a new private and we have a new infinity -- affinity group this infinity -- affinity group this season, so people to process season, so people to process information differently, company information differently, company members, not for patrons but members, not for patrons but company members, who may have to company members, who may have to read brain injury or read brain injury or posttraumatic stress disorder or posttraumatic stress disorder or might have autism or Asperger's, might have autism or Asperger's, dyslexia or something, they can dyslexia or something, they can get together and talk about what get together and talk about what they need is company members. they need is company members. Talk about it in a safe space. Talk about it in a safe space. The head of our voice and text The head of our voice and text department, Rebecca Clark department, Rebecca Clark Carey, Carey, has been working with actors who has been working with actors who have dyslexia or other have dyslexia or other issues issues when it comes to reading when it comes to reading scripts, and she has been scripts, and she has been working with them for a couple working with them for a couple of years on what font size of years on what font size works. works. What font style works, what What font style works, what may may be a need this script on the be a need this script on the paper color other than whites, paper color other than whites, so we are working -- she is so we are working -- she is working with actors in that working with actors in that realm, so there are people realm, so there are people within the festival working within the festival working within different departments and within different departments and for different employee for different employee constituents, company members on constituents, company members on these issues, and the open data these issues, and the open data log we had a couple weeks ago log we had a couple weeks ago brought a lot of people together brought a lot of people together to talk about this. to talk about this. There were a lot of people there There were a lot of people there who had never thought about who had never thought about these issues who work in these issues who work in different departments, so now different departments, so now they are thinking about it. they are thinking about it. That is part of what the open That is part of what the open dialogue series does. dialogue series does. Christine: I would imagine for Christine: I would imagine for someone like Rega someone like Rega n with n with disability issue, there it be disability issue, there it be discussion with the designers discussion with the designers around any potential set issues. around any potential set issues. Is there any sort of negotiation Is there any sort of negotiation in terms of in terms of aesthetic versus aesthetic versus practicality? practicality? Regan: I will mention a couple Regan: I will mention a couple of different examples. of different examples. First, for myself First, for myself as a wheeling as a wheeling performer, sometimes costumes performer, sometimes costumes are a consideration. are a consideration. The costume department was very The costume department was very accommodating in talking to me accommodating in talking to me about what I needed and being about what I needed and being open open to here is the design but to here is the design but how do we adapt this? how do we adapt this? For instance, I was wearing a For instance, I was wearing a shawl and for those of you who shawl and for those of you who have ever wheeled with one, it have ever wheeled with one, it can easily fall off. can easily fall off. They would put little snaps at They would put little snaps at the top. the top. Similarly, I was wearing Similarly, I was wearing gloves gloves and I was thinking, pushing, and I was thinking, pushing, that will be difficult because that will be difficult because it slips, so they put some grip it slips, so they put some grip on my gloves. on my gloves. In terms of stage and, they were In terms of stage and, they were a couple of interesting a couple of interesting experiences. experiences. One, for "Much Ado One, for "Much Ado About About Nothing," it was in an Nothing," it was in an outside Villa and the one to the outside Villa and the one to the turf on the stage, so they came turf on the stage, so they came to me and said, thinking about to me and said, thinking about putting turf on the stage. putting turf on the stage. When you get to OSF, Kelly get When you get to OSF, Kelly get you different samples and have you different samples and have you dwell on them and tell us you dwell on them and tell us what works. what works. When I got to OSF, I rolled on When I got to OSF, I rolled on the two different samples and I the two different samples and I said the shorter cut works a said the shorter cut works a little better for me. little better for me. Come to first or her salon the Come to first or her salon the stage, they had chosen the other stage, they had chosen the other one. one. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] The longer cuts, but I The longer cuts, but I appreciate that at least they appreciate that at least they consulted me. consulted me. I think that was a really great I think that was a really great example of the ticket into example of the ticket into consideration, they still consideration, they still decided for design purposes to decided for design purposes to go with the other one, which -- go with the other one, which -- so I had to accommodate slightly so I had to accommodate slightly and they, workout pushing across and they, workout pushing across the turf every show. the turf every show. The example of thinking about it The example of thinking about it is one step, but putting it into is one step, but putting it into action is the next step. action is the next step. When I was working on my other When I was working on my other play, the Taiwanese play, we play, the Taiwanese play, we realized that going off the realized that going off the stage on one side stage on one side , there was , there was access. access. If he went off the other side If he went off the other side because of set pieces, I was not because of set pieces, I was not able to get around to go down to able to get around to go down to the dressing room. the dressing room. The director had directed me to The director had directed me to come off of the right side of come off of the right side of the stage and then it was going the stage and then it was going to hit intermission, so I was to hit intermission, so I was like, well, I am going to be like, well, I am going to be sitting on the right side of the sitting on the right side of the stage for the entire stage for the entire intermission, essentially 30 intermission, essentially 30 minutes. minutes. He ended up He ended up crafting this moment crafting this moment during intermission, where I during intermission, where I would cross the stage would cross the stage theatrically but it was just to theatrically but it was just to get to the other side get to the other side to go to go dancers and drink water. dancers and drink water. Ideas of how sometimes it can Ideas of how sometimes it can feel like design and feel like design and accessibility are in conflict, accessibility are in conflict, and that is really not true. and that is really not true. It is just a matter of finding It is just a matter of finding where is that middle ground and where is that middle ground and finding a compromise and finding a compromise and creative way of solving these creative way of solving these problems, but not problems but problems, but not problems but conundrums. conundrums. Christine: Tiffany -- Christine: Tiffany -- she is she is talking. talking. Can -- I just want to do a quick Can -- I just want to do a quick time check. time check. Because I want to give time for Because I want to give time for the audience to ask them the audience to ask them questions. questions. Tiffany: Greer at 11:15 Tiffany: Greer at 11:15 almost, almost, so if we want to go a little so if we want to go a little over because it did not start, over because it did not start, that is fine. that is fine. Let's say 10 minutes. Let's say 10 minutes. Christine: 10 minutes for this Christine: 10 minutes for this section or 10 minutes total? section or 10 minutes total? Tiffany: 10 minutes total, Tiffany: 10 minutes total, unless there are key points, but unless there are key points, but say what you need to say. say what you need to say. Julie: I wanted to add something Julie: I wanted to add something about what the aesthetics of the about what the aesthetics of the show. show. D with -- with a D with -- with a deaf actor deaf actor onstage, there will be sign onstage, there will be sign language onstage. language onstage. If you have a right-handed If you have a right-handed signer, so their right hand is signer, so their right hand is facing up stage, what they sign facing up stage, what they sign or what their fingers may not be or what their fingers may not be clear to whoever they are clear to whoever they are talking to. talking to. Part of the discussion in Part of the discussion in reversal were around who is the reversal were around who is the communication communication for? for? ? For super production, so what ? For super production, so what other character needs to see the other character needs to see the sign language sign language Who is signing to each other? Who is signing to each other? In our Elizabethan stage, In our Elizabethan stage, we do we do have several levels. have several levels. If you have two people who are If you have two people who are communicating on different communicating on different levels, they have to -- the levels, they have to -- the person on the upper level has to person on the upper level has to be close enough to the edge to be close enough to the edge to see the sign language that is see the sign language that is being done on the lower level. being done on the lower level. There were some staging and There were some staging and blocking considerations around blocking considerations around having a visual language as part having a visual language as part of the production. of the production. That is where the director and That is where the director and the actors, all of them, work the actors, all of them, work together and collaboratively to together and collaboratively to make sure that this was going to make sure that this was going to work out. work out. They also worked together to They also worked together to figure out Hughes -- c figure out Hughes -- c ues if ues if there was applause before How there was applause before How ie had a line, and if you have a ie had a line, and if you have a deaf actor who cannot do that, deaf actor who cannot do that, you need a visual cue. you need a visual cue. Other actors would move in -- Other actors would move in -- move around movements and then move around movements and then provide visual clues of so he provide visual clues of so he could say his lines at the right could say his lines at the right time. time. A lot of the time it is A lot of the time it is just one just one actor putting his hand on the actor putting his hand on the others shoulder and that was others shoulder and that was enough of a visual clue as a how enough of a visual clue as a how we. we. Nobody in the audience knew that Nobody in the audience knew that is what was going on, so there is what was going on, so there are ways within the rehearsal are ways within the rehearsal time, everyone involved in time, everyone involved in production can work together, to production can work together, to mention sure there is an mention sure there is an inclusion on stage to meet inclusion on stage to meet everyone's vacation needs. everyone's vacation needs. >> >> we haven't talked about the we haven't talked about the impact of what we are talking impact of what we are talking about, having to say about, having to say actors on actors on stage, but what is the impact on stage, but what is the impact on the audiences? the audiences? Let's use OSF Let's use OSF as the example as the example provided feedback to do get? provided feedback to do get? Regan: overwhelmingly positive Regan: overwhelmingly positive and overwhelmingly encouraging. and overwhelmingly encouraging. When I would prologue stage, -- When I would prologue stage, -- I would roll off stage, yet this I would roll off stage, yet this area called the bricks were area called the bricks were people would gather and some of people would gather and some of them would not realize I used a them would not realize I used a wheelchair real-life. wheelchair real-life. They thought it was the They thought it was the character choice that is a shift character choice that is a shift paralyzed is important to a paralyzed is important to a knowledge that because there is knowledge that because there is not that tradition of people at, not that tradition of people at, actors with disabilities playing actors with disabilities playing roles, people make that roles, people make that assumption that it is the assumption that it is the character choice, which I think is something good for us to character choice, which I think is something good for us to realize. realize. There is still the ground to be There is still the ground to be covered in terms of changing covered in terms of changing that tradition. that tradition. Some people might think Some people might think that that actor may actually have a actor may actually have a disability. disability. Everybody I encountered said, Everybody I encountered said, this is something we have been this is something we have been waiting for it. waiting for it. We are so glad that OSF is doing it. We are so glad that OSF is doing it. I I think if there is a takeaway, think if there is a takeaway, one takeaway I would like to one takeaway I would like to offer from today is it is offer from today is it is important to think about important to think about changing the tradition of changing the tradition of inclusive casting and that inclusive casting and that doesn't happen with one show. doesn't happen with one show. that happens with bringing How that happens with bringing How ie ie back for seven seasons and not back for seven seasons and not just bringing Howie back. just bringing Howie back. It happens with bringing in a It happens with bringing in a Regan or making 5% or 10% of the Regan or making 5% or 10% of the company, inclusive of companies company, inclusive of companies with disabilities. with disabilities. When you do with a company When you do with a company of a hundred actors, and OSF of a hundred actors, and OSF does a lot around inclusion, so does a lot around inclusion, so sometimes they are just unique sometimes they are just unique requirements in terms of requirements in terms of material they are doing. material they are doing. That is another piece, choosing That is another piece, choosing material, and what are the material, and what are the stories you are putting up stories you are putting up there? there? When you are just thinking of When you are just thinking of what inclusion means, what inclusion means, it is it is always importance, and I do most always importance, and I do most of us in this room know this, of us in this room know this, that disability is something that disability is something that can affect everyone and that can affect everyone and probably will affect anyone. probably will affect anyone. It is usually represented in our It is usually represented in our human population. human population. I think it is 15% -- I think it is 15% -- Almost 20% and with this Almost 20% and with this ability. ability. There is no way that you can There is no way that you can leave out disability leave out disability and I will and I will not pass the mic. not pass the mic. Christine: Christine: any closing thoughts any closing thoughts before we open it up. before we open it up. We have time for like two We have time for like two questions. questions. If you have a burning desire to If you have a burning desire to say something, please, do. say something, please, do. OK, to be happening questions. OK, to be happening questions. Yes? Yes? Microphone is coming your way. Microphone is coming your way. Kristin: Hi, I am Kristin from Kristin: Hi, I am Kristin from its birth. its birth. I have a question and may not be I have a question and may not be the best given the amount of the best given the amount of time because it would take a time because it would take a long discussion. long discussion. Maybe it is something that will Maybe it is something that will continue throughout the day and continue throughout the day and it revolves around language. it revolves around language. As I have sat through lead As I have sat through lead sessions earlier this week sessions earlier this week , it , it excites me to have this excites me to have this conversation. conversation. Christine Kelly about Christine Kelly about -- -- Christine, you were talking Christine, you were talking about the disabled artists in about the disabled artists in worked with. worked with. We have been really big on We have been really big on people first language and using people first language and using that as our basis for how we that as our basis for how we talk about our patrons, artists talk about our patrons, artists , , but I think encountering more but I think encountering more and more artists who have and more artists who have disabilities and you are disabilities and you are flipping their back the opposite flipping their back the opposite direction and talking about as direction and talking about as sort of sort of as important in their as important in their art and identity. art and identity. I am not sure there was a right I am not sure there was a right answer. answer. Since we have all of you Since we have all of you wonderful ladies out there, just wonderful ladies out there, just sort of want to hear your sort of want to hear your perspective. perspective. Christine: personally, I prefer Christine: personally, I prefer disabled artists because it is a disabled artists because it is a term of empowerment to me. term of empowerment to me. In our organization, you use In our organization, you use them interchangeably because we them interchangeably because we understand that the industry has understand that the industry has very caught up to people very caught up to people 's first 's first play which comes about is that play which comes about is that we had not fully adopted using we had not fully adopted using disabled as an adjective first. disabled as an adjective first. The empowerment and social The empowerment and social justice component that we use justice component that we use them interchangeably. them interchangeably. How do you feel? How do you feel? Regan: I do not have one Regan: I do not have one perspective. perspective. Yes, I see myself as Yes, I see myself as somebody, somebody, as all of us are, all unique in as all of us are, all unique in our abilities. our abilities. I have kind of historically not I have kind of historically not gone for disabled because I just gone for disabled because I just think that I operate and I move think that I operate and I move through the world in my own through the world in my own unique way. unique way. I think the biggest thing that I I think the biggest thing that I like to emphasize in this way is like to emphasize in this way is to not let the terminology get to not let the terminology get in the way of having a in the way of having a discussion. discussion. I do not know but it is OK to I do not know but it is OK to cuss on cuss on HowlRoun HowlRoun d,but we d,but we will all fuck up. will all fuck up. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] If you have a problem, ask If you have a problem, ask someone about the terminology someone about the terminology they use and get over it. they use and get over it. Do not like that cold us up on Do not like that cold us up on having the more difficult parts having the more difficult parts of that discussion on how we of that discussion on how we just get actors on stage. just get actors on stage. Christine: I think if we have Christine: I think if we have one huge takeaway from today, if one huge takeaway from today, if we had to take one, I would say we had to take one, I would say talk to the artist. talk to the artist. Consult the artist because they Consult the artist because they are going to know what is best are going to know what is best for them and what they prefer for them and what they prefer instead of making assumptions instead of making assumptions about what you think they will about what you think they will prefer and what you think they prefer and what you think they will be preferred to be called. will be preferred to be called. If we had to choose one, which If we had to choose one, which we do not, that would be my one. we do not, that would be my one. Julie: one of the benefits we Julie: one of the benefits we have seen from the open dialogue have seen from the open dialogue series that happened every two series that happened every two weeks is that we are learning weeks is that we are learning how to talk about these issues. how to talk about these issues. Even though we have great Even though we have great support from our leadership team support from our leadership team from the artistic director and from the artistic director and executive director, we have it executive director, we have it in our mission statement, not in our mission statement, not everyone in our organization is everyone in our organization is in the same place on this in the same place on this journey of learning on how to journey of learning on how to talk about diversity, inclusion talk about diversity, inclusion and accessibility. and accessibility. Having these regular discussions Having these regular discussions on the topics, we are all on the topics, we are all learning how to talk about it learning how to talk about it and how to be comfortable with and how to be comfortable with the words coming out of our the words coming out of our mouth or off of our hands, so mouth or off of our hands, so that is one of the benefits of that is one of the benefits of having the open dialogue series. having the open dialogue series. We come up with a lot of ideas We come up with a lot of ideas and not a lot of answers but we and not a lot of answers but we ask a lot of questions. ask a lot of questions. >> I have a question for you >> I have a question for you . . As you were talking, I was As you were talking, I was thinking my own scenario, thinking my own scenario, teaching at Duke and the head of teaching at Duke and the head of the arts program there is the arts program there is hearing-impaired and is a hearing-impaired and is a musician, so we thought, we have musician, so we thought, we have got to get him to think of being got to get him to think of being a part of the disabled community a part of the disabled community so we can get him to loosen up so we can get him to loosen up some pursestrings. some pursestrings. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] Just practical thinking there, Just practical thinking there, strategic, maybe. strategic, maybe. I was wondering what it was at I was wondering what it was at OSF that provided the impetus OSF that provided the impetus for them to relate jump on board for them to relate jump on board for them -- for them to jump on for them -- for them to jump on board and make them engage in board and make them engage in this? this? I mean other places did not jump I mean other places did not jump on board. on board. Was it a person? Was it a person? Wasn't going to lead somewhere Wasn't going to lead somewhere along the line? along the line? Regan: I think it Regan: I think it always always probably originates with people probably originates with people because we are also dealing with because we are also dealing with an art form that deals with an art form that deals with people. people. I do not know who, but I think I do not know who, but I think it is a combination of patrons it is a combination of patrons that wanted it, Bill realizing that wanted it, Bill realizing that we want to reflect the that we want to reflect the world, and the world includes world, and the world includes people with disabilities, and people with disabilities, and company members and bringing in company members and bringing in people that do have disabilities people that do have disabilities and then all of a sudden and then all of a sudden becoming aware of where you are becoming aware of where you are missing the boat. missing the boat. I do not think it is -- I do not I do not think it is -- I do not know there was one person, but know there was one person, but it all comes when people. it all comes when people. That is another takeaway. That is another takeaway. For any of For any of us patronizing the us patronizing the arts or involved in the arts, it arts or involved in the arts, it is a group effort. is a group effort. Therefore, it cannot just be the Therefore, it cannot just be the actors with disabilities that actors with disabilities that are advocating for the are advocating for the accessibility to continue beyond accessibility to continue beyond the audience. the audience. It has to be the people that are It has to be the people that are going to the show saying, hey, going to the show saying, hey, we really enjoyed seeing Howie, we really enjoyed seeing Howie, "Spring "Spring Awakening," we want to Awakening," we want to see more. see more. As might community institution, As might community institution, you need to be doing this and you need to be doing this and continue to get that feedback to continue to get that feedback to the cultural leaders. the cultural leaders. I think in Ashland, I think in Ashland, that has that has been happening, but that does been happening, but that does not mean it cannot happen more. not mean it cannot happen more. The arts are based on demand a lot of the time. The arts are based on demand a lot of the time. It is based on artistic vision It is based on artistic vision and who is coming to see it and and who is coming to see it and what do they want? what do they want? The more we give that feedback The more we give that feedback to our theaters and cultural to our theaters and cultural institutions institutions and the more they and the more they demand to see, the more you will see of it. demand to see, the more you will see of it. Christine: as organizations, we Christine: as organizations, we have to remember that if it have to remember that if it starts with one person, it starts with one person, it should not end when that should not end when that person's tenure is over, which person's tenure is over, which is often what happens. is often what happens. If a particular artistic If a particular artistic director has commitments to an director has commitments to an issue, often, it just dies after issue, often, it just dies after that person leaves that that person leaves that position, and we have to position, and we have to remember that what we are trying remember that what we are trying to do was change the culture of to do was change the culture of the institution so that the institution so that diversity inclusion is part of diversity inclusion is part of everything from the top down everything from the top down , to , to the boardroom, to the actors on the boardroom, to the actors on stage, and everything in stage, and everything in between. between. Julie: our mission statement Julie: our mission statement includes inclusion, includes inclusion, and one of and one of the waste that we are showing the waste that we are showing that to the community is in all that to the community is in all of our job postings, it has got of our job postings, it has got the job description, and at the the job description, and at the bottom, there is a statement bottom, there is a statement about diversity and inclusion at about diversity and inclusion at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, so if you do not or are not so if you do not or are not interested in that, do not apply interested in that, do not apply because for all of our outward because for all of our outward facing positions at all levels, facing positions at all levels, part of the interview process is part of the interview process is an interview with the diversity an interview with the diversity planning Council, and I have planning Council, and I have been on plenty of those been on plenty of those interviews. interviews. There are usually three of us There are usually three of us are five of us from DIPC, and it are five of us from DIPC, and it is obvious which candidates have is obvious which candidates have either never thought about either never thought about diversity and inclusion, even diversity and inclusion, even though it is written into the though it is written into the job announcement, or job announcement, or are not are not interested in it or are interested in it or are interested but not -- but do not interested but not -- but do not know how to talk about it, so know how to talk about it, so that has been very clear as that has been very clear as well, and that is something we well, and that is something we do on all of our job do on all of our job descriptions, from leadership descriptions, from leadership positions, down to house staff positions, down to house staff and other positions. and other positions. That is something small that That is something small that your organization can do, as your organization can do, as well, to make people aware of well, to make people aware of what they are doing. what they are doing. There was one other thing. There was one other thing. Oh, our Board of Directors has Oh, our Board of Directors has several subcommittees, the several subcommittees, the finance committee, and they now finance committee, and they now have a diversity and inclusion have a diversity and inclusion subcommittee. subcommittee. And their people think And their people think and how and how to make our board more diverse to make our board more diverse and how that impacts the rest of and how that impacts the rest of the organization. the organization. It is not just one person. It is not just one person. We are very lucky that we have We are very lucky that we have built as artist -- Bill as built as artist -- Bill as our our director and our Board of director and our Board of Directors is on board with this, Directors is on board with this, no pun intended, so it no pun intended, so it So it helps that we have So it helps that we have organizational wide support. organizational wide support. It really helps to have that It really helps to have that commitment for the leadership. commitment for the leadership. >> Re: good? >> Re: good? >> we will try to take >> we will try to take a break. a break. We will keep it to 10 minutes We will keep it to 10 minutes and keep it at 11:40. and keep it at 11:40. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so much. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] I would encourage everyone, I would encourage everyone, because we had to cut the Q and because we had to cut the Q and a session a little short, please a session a little short, please write it down on your post-its. write it down on your post-its. We will have time at the end of We will have time at the end of the day to address any the day to address any additional burning questions you additional burning questions you might have had. might have had. And And in in [NO AUDIO] [NO AUDIO] [NO AUDIO] [NO AUDIO] [NO AUDIO] [NO AUDIO] We have ramped that up since We have ramped that up since 2008 or nine, before my time. 2008 or nine, before my time. There is no one-size-fits-all. There is no one-size-fits-all. Accessibility is not a threshold Accessibility is not a threshold that you cross and now you are that you cross and now you are there and you are done. there and you are done. It is always a work in progress It is always a work in progress and it always involved talking and it always involved talking with the needs of individuals. with the needs of individuals. 55 through 60 individuals each 55 through 60 individuals each month month , it is hospitality in some , it is hospitality in some ways. ways. We are needing to serve the We are needing to serve the needs of the artists who come needs of the artists who come here. here. That is the short answer. That is the short answer. >> something that just occurred to me is what month were you in >> something that just occurred to me is what month were you in Vermont? Vermont? >> October. >> October. It was 80 degrees one day. It was 80 degrees one day. >> my question for you is as an >> my question for you is as an organization how has hosting the organization how has hosting the creative access fellows impacted creative access fellows impacted the Vermont studio Center? the Vermont studio Center? >> it has enriched the mission >> it has enriched the mission of the studio Center to be an of the studio Center to be an inclusive international inclusive international community. community. This gets to the heart of the This gets to the heart of the inclusivity ask -- inclusivity inclusivity ask -- inclusivity aspect of that. aspect of that. Creative access Creative access is a term we is a term we used to name a lot of programs. used to name a lot of programs. We have had residency fellowships for artists and We have had residency fellowships for artists and writers who are blind, those who writers who are blind, those who are deaf or hard of hearing and are deaf or hard of hearing and folks who have a spinal cord folks who have a spinal cord injury. injury. Or we have a previous Or we have a previous partnership with the Christopher partnership with the Christopher Reeve foundation and was more Reeve foundation and was more broadly for artists who use broadly for artists who use wheelchairs. wheelchairs. It wasn't limited to people who It wasn't limited to people who had a specific injury, but they had a specific injury, but they have spinal conditions and have spinal conditions and diseases. diseases. It has been enlightening. It has been enlightening. You You are taking a risk and are taking a risk and leaving behind all your regular leaving behind all your regular support systems. support systems. You are making deals with your You are making deals with your partner, your spouse, your partner, your spouse, your children, your family, maybe children, your family, maybe your employers your employers you are doing it in private. you are doing it in private. You're taken that into a new You're taken that into a new place with 5500 people and place with 5500 people and practicing in a shared space it practicing in a shared space it is really rejuvenating for the staff. is really rejuvenating for the staff. That is how we became That is how we became development director and writing director. development director and writing director. I went there one I went there one frigid January frigid January and spent the month writing and and spent the month writing and thought it was the greatest thought it was the greatest experience I have ever had. experience I have ever had. It helps all that we do and It helps all that we do and strengthens our mission. strengthens our mission. >> something they do very well >> something they do very well is always asking for feedback, is always asking for feedback, which was nice to know what they which was nice to know what they were implementing and doing was were implementing and doing was based off the actual people that based off the actual people that benefit from it. benefit from it. What are we doing and how can we What are we doing and how can we do it better?, many artists come do it better?, many artists come up with a value is being a up with a value is being a community of artists dedicated community of artists dedicated to art. to art. I have often I have often found artists with found artists with disabilities can feel isolated disabilities can feel isolated and not part of a community. and not part of a community. So my question for you is how So my question for you is how has being welcomed in this has being welcomed in this community changed your art? community changed your art? >> it has made it more focused >> it has made it more focused and kind of realized and kind of realized where I where I could go with it. could go with it. I have been playing around with I have been playing around with different kinds of mediums. different kinds of mediums. I have had the experience of I have had the experience of having to share my work in a having to share my work in a slide presentation. slide presentation. And it really made me think And it really made me think about the work I had done in the about the work I had done in the past and where I was and where I past and where I was and where I wanted to go in the future and where I wanted to go with it. wanted to go in the future and where I wanted to go with it. In the past In the past I looked at my art I I looked at my art I work -- and my art as separate work -- and my art as separate from a work. from a work. When I started this nonprofit I When I started this nonprofit I thought I would be doing this, thought I would be doing this, the nonprofit management, and I the nonprofit management, and I won't have time for the art. won't have time for the art. That was something scary for me. That was something scary for me. If I'm going to do this I'm not If I'm going to do this I'm not going to have time for it and I going to have time for it and I don't think I want that to be don't think I want that to be the case. the case. Being at this residency area Being at this residency area lies die have been doing a lot lies die have been doing a lot of art related things through of art related things through the nonprofit for awareness. the nonprofit for awareness. And I started seeing the And I started seeing the component for social justice and component for social justice and what an impact that could do. what an impact that could do. I merged my art with what I want I merged my art with what I want to say and what I want to share to say and what I want to share with the world. with the world. Not thinking of it as painting a Not thinking of it as painting a pretty picture or taking this pretty picture or taking this interesting photograph. What do I want to say with it? interesting photograph. What do I want to say with it? And the power that it has. And the power that it has. >> Brian I'm asking you to put >> Brian I'm asking you to put off -- to take off your arts off -- to take off your arts administrator hat. administrator hat. How has working with artists How has working with artists with disabilities changed your work? with disabilities changed your work? >> that is a great question. >> that is a great question. It has really strengthened my It has really strengthened my discipline. discipline. I'm not some but he who shows up I'm not some but he who shows up at the desk every morning and at the desk every morning and writes a certain amount of time easily. writes a certain amount of time easily. That is something I struggle with. That is something I struggle with. Seeing everybody who comes to Seeing everybody who comes to the studio Center, people I get to know better. the studio Center, people I get to know better. I'm always inspire not just by I'm always inspire not just by the work they make but by the the work they make but by the fact that they are putting so fact that they are putting so much aside much aside to put this forward to put this forward and put it primarily in their and put it primarily in their lives, to be the artist, be the lives, to be the artist, be the writer. writer. I'm thinking of one writer in I'm thinking of one writer in particular who came to the particular who came to the studio Center in 2013 and had studio Center in 2013 and had been an engineer. been an engineer. Was blind and had F Was blind and had F Ness. Ness. -- and had deafness. -- and had deafness. He had been toying with poetry for a while. He had been toying with poetry for a while. It has transformed his life. It has transformed his life. He went to an MFA program and He went to an MFA program and finished that this past May. finished that this past May. We have been in touch since he We have been in touch since he was there in 2013. was there in 2013. His dedication and his choice to His dedication and his choice to be a writer inspired me to do be a writer inspired me to do the writing. the writing. And to be reading poetry. And to be reading poetry. That is one personal anecdote of many. That is one personal anecdote of many. >> I am not an artist, but I >> I am not an artist, but I work with a lot of artists. work with a lot of artists. I noticed that a lot of times I noticed that a lot of times the deepest connection is the the deepest connection is the artist to artist connection. artist to artist connection. I swear when -- I swear it is I swear when -- I swear it is like when the old amort and like when the old amort and Harry Potter's wands connect. Harry Potter's wands connect. Everyone goes to Everyone goes to hear in work. hear in work. I'm wondering whether or not you I'm wondering whether or not you have experienced with that. have experienced with that. >> it did happen here. >> it did happen here. One of the things I remember and One of the things I remember and one of the best things , usually one of the best things , usually when I go somewhere people ask when I go somewhere people ask you what happened to you or how you what happened to you or how were you injured. were you injured. I was there about three or four I was there about three or four days and nobody asked me that. days and nobody asked me that. All the conversations we had All the conversations we had were around art and what are you were around art and what are you working on today and what kind of materials are you using? working on today and what kind of materials are you using? It was all art and so It was all art and so refreshing refreshing to not have that question come to not have that question come up. up. Even though when it did come up Even though when it did come up I brought it up myself because I brought it up myself because it was related to my work. it was related to my work. I was I was able to meet other artists and talk about what we were able to meet other artists and talk about what we were doing. doing. This is a funny way of This is a funny way of happening, but the person in the happening, but the person in the studio next to mine turned out studio next to mine turned out to the a personal-care attendant to the a personal-care attendant for this woman and he was there for this woman and he was there for a month. for a month. We started talking it up We started talking it up personal-care attendants and stuff like that. personal-care attendants and stuff like that. I just needed to move around and I just needed to move around and my body needed to stretch. my body needed to stretch. My care attendant is actually a My care attendant is actually a yoga instructor as well, so we yoga instructor as well, so we decided to do yoga in the studio. decided to do yoga in the studio. We knocked on the wall and said We knocked on the wall and said hey can you come over and help me transfer to the floor? hey can you come over and help me transfer to the floor? And we just took a series of And we just took a series of photographs, totally not planned. photographs, totally not planned. We just did a series of We just did a series of photographs, started off doing yoga. photographs, started off doing yoga. They looked really weird. They looked really weird. It didn't even look like a body anymore. It didn't even look like a body anymore. It started making me think about It started making me think about body image and nothing came of the photos yet. body image and nothing came of the photos yet. It has It has gotten me to think about gotten me to think about body image and photography and disability. body image and photography and disability. It was cool. It was cool. >> have you seen >> have you seen those moments? those moments? >> it happens. >> it happens. You get this many people from You get this many people from all walks of life and all over all walks of life and all over the world the world together, living in together, living in the same houses and next door to the same houses and next door to each other in the studios along each other in the studios along this hive activity week after week. this hive activity week after week. Those connections do happen. Those connections do happen. We met there in the studio We met there in the studio Center. Center. I think that at -- I think that I think that at -- I think that underscores the inclusivity in underscores the inclusivity in the mission, which is just the the mission, which is just the founding ideal, the creativity founding ideal, the creativity of this universal human endeavor . of this universal human endeavor . We have heard it before and I We have heard it before and I imagine it will be repeated again. imagine it will be repeated again. It unifies us in that way, It unifies us in that way, despite where we are coming from. despite where we are coming from. That was always inspiring and real. That was always inspiring and real. And intense. And intense. People leave on a Friday and 55 People leave on a Friday and 55 more people show up on a Sunday. more people show up on a Sunday. And then we start again. And then we start again. >> that just makes my head hurt. >> that just makes my head hurt. One of the things I'm curious One of the things I'm curious about is what happens afterwards? about is what happens afterwards? What is our long-term impact? What is our long-term impact? I know about the Vermont studio I know about the Vermont studio Center because we do these Center because we do these individual grants for artists every single round. individual grants for artists every single round. We get at least two people We get at least two people applying for funding at the applying for funding at the studio Center because it is such studio Center because it is such a sought-after residency. a sought-after residency. My personal thinking My personal thinking is it takes is it takes a minimum of five years to process residency. a minimum of five years to process residency. I want to ask you how long has I want to ask you how long has it been since you've been there it been since you've been there and how do you think it will and how do you think it will impact you long-term? impact you long-term? >> it has been two years. >> it has been two years. I went I went in October 2014. in October 2014. When I got there I felt like a big fraud. When I got there I felt like a big fraud. Like Like I wasn't an artist and I wasn't an artist and everyone around me was doing all everyone around me was doing all these great things. these great things. It has impacted me in a way I It has impacted me in a way I don't feel like a -- anymore. don't feel like a -- anymore. I'm more I'm more comfortable sharing my comfortable sharing my artwork. artwork. I was able to be part of the I was able to be part of the show and exhibit my work in show and exhibit my work in November of last year, which was November of last year, which was really cool. really cool. And I am working on another one coming up this year. And I am working on another one coming up this year. Trying to just get my artwork out there. Trying to just get my artwork out there. It has made me more comfortable It has made me more comfortable with identifying myself as an with identifying myself as an artist and insuring my work. artist and insuring my work. >> you have to put this in >> you have to put this in context, because everybody comes from a residence. context, because everybody comes from a residence. >> we do >> we do have interviews, have interviews, particularly with funded particularly with funded programs. programs. We do follow-up. I reached out to Rebecca and We do follow-up. I reached out to Rebecca and others this year to see where they were and what they have others this year to see where they were and what they have been up to so we can report in terms of long-term impact. been up to so we can report in terms of long-term impact. Lots of gallery shows, lots of Lots of gallery shows, lots of readings, and lots of those connections that happened by readings, and lots of those connections that happened by meeting other artists, it meeting other artists, it doesn't manifest until months or doesn't manifest until months or years later that this person I years later that this person I met at the studio Center, they met at the studio Center, they have a gallery in Houston and I have a gallery in Houston and I will have a showdown there. will have a showdown there. We are invested in the long-term We are invested in the long-term betterment of the feel of artist residencies. betterment of the feel of artist residencies. We have been working with the We have been working with the alliance of artist communities, which is a wonderful umbrella alliance of artist communities, which is a wonderful umbrella organization that several hundred residencies in the U.S. organization that several hundred residencies in the U.S. belonged to to kind of belonged to to kind of set and set and give us the feedback that have give us the feedback that have the first-hand experience, just the first-hand experience, just what are the first -- what are the best practices for the what are the first -- what are field? the best practices for the field? It hasn't yet had the capacity It hasn't yet had the capacity to understand what is out there to understand what is out there in terms of which residencies are accessible. in terms of which residencies are accessible. That is taking shape rather That is taking shape rather quickly thanks to this quickly thanks to this consortium we started last year. consortium we started last year. >> I'm going to point something out here. >> I'm going to point something out here. Any artist generally can go Any artist generally can go online to the alliance and look up residencies. online to the alliance and look up residencies. But there are three arts But there are three arts residencies. residencies. There is There is like 10 where they like 10 where they specifically welcome people with disabilities. specifically welcome people with disabilities. If you do take If you do take the thousands of the thousands of residencies available and think residencies available and think of the ones that are advertising of the ones that are advertising themselves as welcoming artists themselves as welcoming artists with disabilities, your with disabilities, your opportunities are far fewer than otherwise. opportunities are far fewer than otherwise. I'm just pointing that out. I'm just pointing that out. I'm pointing I'm pointing down -- just keep down -- just keep that in your heads. that in your heads. So what do you want the alliance So what do you want the alliance for artist communities to do? for artist communities to do? To increase the opportunities? To increase the opportunities? I'm putting you on the spot I'm putting you on the spot because that is a teeth question. because that is a teeth question. -- a deep question. -- a deep question. >> I think I would like >> I think I would like questions to be asked, what do questions to be asked, what do you need and how can we include you need and how can we include you in our programs and our you in our programs and our residencies and anything, really? residencies and anything, really? But being asked to be included But being asked to be included and being able to participate in and being able to participate in the process of what would make the process of what would make it inclusive, I think it is it inclusive, I think it is really important to be included really important to be included and have that voice and these and have that voice and these decisions not to be taken without us. decisions not to be taken without us. >> everything we have learned >> everything we have learned about accessibility in terms of about accessibility in terms of the campus itself has come from artists. the campus itself has come from artists. I would say put out an open I would say put out an open call. call. Also finding ways to pool Also finding ways to pool resources. resources. The success comes best just when The success comes best just when there is not the excess for there is not the excess for campus in the facility but also campus in the facility but also the programming, the fact there the programming, the fact there is a fellowship so the whole is a fellowship so the whole experience is paid for, plus travel, plus a stipend. experience is paid for, plus travel, plus a stipend. And yes the campus and studio And yes the campus and studio will have a house that will work for you. will have a house that will work for you. Maybe not accessible to so many Maybe not accessible to so many of us. of us. There is a way I'm excited about There is a way I'm excited about this consortium that will this consortium that will continue to grow. continue to grow. The alliance can see a way The alliance can see a way to to leverage funding in ways that leverage funding in ways that make the residency cost part go away for artists. make the residency cost part go away for artists. >> that helps a lot. >> that helps a lot. Forever we say the ADA is the floor. Forever we say the ADA is the floor. That is where you must be. That is where you must be. That covers effective That covers effective communication and everything like that. communication and everything like that. But what you want is to be welcoming. But what you want is to be welcoming. In a way that any artist can In a way that any artist can come in and it doesn't matter come in and it doesn't matter who or what they are. who or what they are. They interact with their They interact with their surroundings and people there as everyone else would. surroundings and people there as everyone else would. We were talking earlier that you We were talking gathered information for other earlier that you gathered information for other artists to make their transition easier. artists to make their transition easier. Then you went on to share it. Then you went on to share it. There is a really There is a really tight network tight network of artists with disabilities and of artists with disabilities and information flies across to information flies across to those networks so fast that they those networks so fast that they are your best asset. are your best asset. Could you tell us a little bit Could you tell us a little bit about what you did and why you about what you did and why you are there. are there. >> while I was there I took a lot of pictures. >> while I was there I took a lot of pictures. I took a lot of videos of stuff. I took a lot of videos of stuff. I didn't initially know what I would use it for. I didn't initially know what I would use it for. I had my PA follow me around I had my PA follow me around with my phone and record me with my phone and record me getting into the studio, the getting into the studio, the handles on each of the doors, handles on each of the doors, getting into my housing, getting into the dining area. getting into my housing, getting into the dining area. It would be behind me from my It would be behind me from my perspective. perspective. The following The following year a friend of mine, I told her she should year a friend of apply. mine, I told her she should apply. She was nervous about the She was nervous about the accessibility so I sent her all the videos. accessibility so I sent her all the videos. It was really helpful for her. It was really helpful for her. She was relieved to see all She was relieved to see all those and see what it would be like. those and see what it would be like. She did have a lot of questions She did have a lot of questions and she did cap -- and she kept asking me questions. and she did cap -- and she kept asking me questions. Finally I just showed her all Finally I just showed her all the videos. the videos. >> and may be >> and may be sure -- and make sure -- and make sure that studio Center gets it sure that studio Center gets it to you. to you. As people have questions to As people have questions to share, we have done a practice share, we have done a practice of putting artists in touch with of putting artists in touch with each other. each other. I'm sorry that didn't happen in your case. I'm sorry that didn't happen in your case. >> we're talking about things like accessibility. >> we're talking about things like accessibility. What makes a difference is the What makes a difference is the staff and the people and when staff and the people and when you show up you are just like everybody else. you show up you are just like everybody else. How do you want people to train your staff? How do you want people to train your staff? >> I think staff knowing a >> I think staff knowing a little bit about disability and little bit about disability and cross disability knowledge is cross disability knowledge is great. great. Going back to asking individual Going back to asking individual questions on what exactly you need to be successful during questions on what exactly you your fellowship. need to be successful during your fellowship. >> would you prefer to have them >> would you prefer to have them ask you, or would you prefer to be the one to start the ask you, or would you prefer to conversation? be the one to start the conversation? >> I think it depends. >> I think it depends. Sometimes it is nice to be asked. Sometimes it is nice to be asked. I was talking with my mom before I was talking with my mom before coming here and everything is coming here and everything is such a fight to get what you such a fight to get what you need and sometimes it is just a need and sometimes it is just a relief to have someone say what the unique? relief to have someone say what the unique? I think it is also the I think it is also the responsibility of the artist to responsibility of the artist to be their own advocate and tell be their own advocate and tell people what is needed >> that is people what is needed >> that is the asking and speaking up. the asking and speaking up. I want you to talk about soliciting and implementing. I want you to talk about soliciting and implementing. >> again the studio Center sort >> again the studio Center sort of found its way into this of found its way into this without a clear decision and without a clear decision and plan. plan. I think it was a matter of artists arriving before there I think it was a matter of artists arriving before there was any program was any program who uses a chair and we have to figure out what who uses a chair do you need and how can we help and we have to figure out what do you need and how can we help you. you. He uses a cane to get around and He uses a cane to get around and curve edges. curve edges. Our campus is sprawling and strange. Our campus is sprawling and strange. We occupy 30 buildings in this old village in Vermont. We occupy 30 buildings in this old village in Vermont. Most of them are repurposed. Most of them are repurposed. There was no clear curb cut on There was no clear curb cut on the way from the dining hall the way from the dining hall offices back to his writing studio. offices back to his writing studio. Our director sat down and said Our director sat down what would you need? and said what would you need? Something that would indicate where the parking lot ends Something that would indicate where the parking lot ends because there is a large open because there is a large open parking lot area parking lot area to know where the open space ends and the to know where sidewalk begins. the open space ends and the sidewalk begins. It was very temporary and a one-person solution. It was very temporary and a one-person solution. I think that is emblematic of I think that is emblematic of what we have done so far in making things work for each what we have done so far in person. making things work for each person. Thankfully there is a strategic Thankfully there is a strategic plan to renovate the campus with plan to renovate the campus with Universal design in mind for each house and studio. Universal design in mind for each house and studio. Whether it is open Studios Whether it is open Studios night night or all the artists who feel like or all the artists who feel like it open their doors and share, it open their doors and share, we won't be dis-including anyone we won't be dis-including anyone because currently the upstairs because currently the upstairs studios are mostly and accessible. studios are mostly and accessible. Within 10 years they all will be. Within 10 years they all will be. In the meantime it is completely In the meantime it is completely about listening, empathy, and about listening, empathy, and the fact that that is what we the fact that that is what we do, it is a hospitality do, it is a hospitality environment. We want everyone to feel environment. comfortable. We want everyone to feel comfortable. >> taking action. >> taking action. I remember one incident, there I remember one incident, there were one of the houses I needed to get into. were one of the houses I needed to get into. I could have gotten over with just a push. I could have gotten over with just a push. By that afternoon there was a ramp there. By that afternoon there was a ramp there. I was beaming with joy because I was beaming with joy because there was a ramp there for me. there was a ramp there for me. He saw that there was that issue. He saw that there was that issue. >> I want to break that down. >> I want to break that down. Did you contact them and say there was an issue? Did you contact them and say there was an issue? >> there was another artist that noticed it. >> there was another artist that noticed it. She went over and spoke up for me. She went over and spoke up for me. >> that is why we love art. >> that is why we love art. That only happens in this That only happens in this community so be proud of yourselves. community so be proud of yourselves. We are talking about two We are talking about two distinct faces of this process distinct faces of this process before and during. before and during. I'm sensing you have a list of things you want to know. I'm sensing you have a list of things you want to know. Then there are a bunch of Then there wildcards that happened during. are a bunch of wildcards that happened during. What is the smoothest way for that process. What is the smoothest way for that process. You want to be able You want to be able to be a to be a resident, do your work, and not resident, do your work, and not spend the day advocating for yourself. spend the day advocating for yourself. How does the ideal process look for you? How does the ideal process look for you? >> having someone I could go to >> having someone I could go to as a point person. as a point person. It makes it easier. It makes it easier. Although a lot of times it Although a lot of times it doesn't work that way. doesn't work that way. Having someone who could be your point person is great. Having someone who could be your point person is great. >> so the person you call who >> so the person you call who says I have to go to the studio, says I have to go to the studio, and that person magically takes and that person magically takes care of it. care of it. From your end, how does that sound? From your end, how does that sound? >> that sounds great. >> that sounds great. Part of this comes to our housekeeping and maintenance Part of this comes to our crew. housekeeping and maintenance crew. They check requests throughout They check requests throughout the day when someone's window the day when someone's window doesn't open to this threshold, doesn't open to this threshold, could it be removed to we need could it be removed to we need another easel or the wall isn't flat enough. another easel or the wall isn't flat enough. Obviously it needs to be refined. Obviously it needs to be refined. I think that is exactly how I found myself handling a lot of I think that is exactly how I found myself handling a lot of accessibility issues, I was the accessibility issues, I was the grants manager because of grants manager because of funding and often federal funding and often federal funding. funding. We have point people. We have point people. If it is a food issue we have If it is a food issue we have people in the kitchen. people in the kitchen. If it is a 3-D studio need we have a different staff. If it is a 3-D studio need we have a different staff. It is staffed to accommodate the It is staffed to 55 people. accommodate the 55 people. It doesn't feel like we get It doesn't feel like we get everybody every day. everybody every day. It is clear where you go to. It is clear where you go to. I think there I think there is some confusion and communication can solve a lot of that. is some confusion and communication can solve a lot of that. >> question time. >> question time. Of course. Of course. >> I'm curious about your work >> I'm curious about your work as an artist. as an artist. Sometimes when I look at artwork Sometimes when I look at artwork where disability is the subject, I feel like sometimes I can where disability is the subject, discern whether the work has I feel like sometimes I can discern whether the work has been been done and I'm curious about done and I'm curious about your perspective on that and your perspective on that and whether you feel like you see whether you feel like you see something that people who don't something that people who don't have disabilities don't see. have disabilities don't see. And your perspective about whether you see something in And your perspective about whether you see something in Rebecca's work or other artists Rebecca's work or other artists who try to capture the who try to capture the experience of disability who don't hit the mark. experience of disability who don't hit the mark. >> you mean a my own personal >> you mean a my own personal work or if I see other work by other disabled artists? work or if I see other work by other disabled artists? >> I guess when you are working, >> I guess when you are working, in your own personal work , in your own personal work , doesn't feel a queue or doesn't feel a queue or capturing other artists that capturing other artists that don't have those disabilities? don't have those disabilities? >> my personal experience I can share in my art. >> my personal experience I can share in my art. For example I'm currently For example I'm currently working on a series of free working on a series of free creations of different iconic creations of different iconic works of art or images in history. works of art or images in history. My wheelchair was very prominent. My wheelchair was very prominent. After doing that it is between After doing that it is between me and two other artists. me and two other artists. We could really do this with all We could really do this with all sorts of images. sorts of images. We just finished doing the Last We just finished doing the Last Supper, which everyone is a person with disability. Supper, which everyone is a person with disability. Someone who is Someone who is blind, another blind, another person who is short in stature, it was just awesome. person who is short in stature, it was just awesome. We are going to be doing We are going to be doing whistlers mother and Rosie the whistlers mother and Rosie the riveter. riveter. We are bringing perspectives of We are bringing perspectives of disability . disability . You can look at it and do a You can look at it and do a double take and say these are double take and say these are all people with disabilities. all people with disabilities. I definitely think I definitely think disability is disability is very prominent in my work. very prominent in my work. I guess it is not always in your face. I guess it is not always in your face. It was subtle and I like that. It was subtle and I like that. >> >> can I say you need to talk to can I say you need to talk to folks at the Andy Warhol Museum. folks at the Andy Warhol Museum. I want to make it I want to make it extraordinarily clear that just extraordinarily clear that just because an artist has because an artist has disability, their work doesn't disability, their work doesn't have to be about disability. have to be about disability. We don't want to shove people We don't want to shove into a pigeonhole. people into a pigeonhole. >> I can see these in my head now. >> I can see these in my head now. I don't have the expertise to I don't have the expertise to look into a piece of work if it look into a piece of work if it is someone who has that personal is someone who has that personal disability experience or not. disability experience or not. And again we have seen a range And again we have seen a range of 16 through 20 artists who have come through the last five of 16 through 20 artists who have come through the last five years of this Nielsen grant supported program. years of this Nielsen grant supported program. Maybe one third of people, their work speaks directly to Maybe one third of people, their disability. work speaks directly to disability. Two thirds it doesn't. Two thirds it doesn't. Part of the admissions process Part of the admissions process is looking is looking for excellent work. for excellent work. So we hire out independent So we hire out independent juries who are always looking at juries who are always looking at all work, totally blind first. all work, totally blind first. They are seeing it without name, They are seeing it without name, without any identifying marks, without any identifying marks, they are just assessing the work they are just assessing the work on artistic merit and excellence. on artistic merit and excellence. The writers The writers , one man was writing , one man was writing a memoir about the person who a memoir about the person who shot him when he was a teenager and that resulted in a spinal cord injury. shot him when he was a teenager and that resulted in a spinal cord injury. Another poet was writing about Another poet was writing about her experiences with MS. her experiences with MS. They are writing about whatever they are writing. They are writing about whatever they are writing. It is the art inside him that It is the art inside him that they want to explore. they want to explore. >> could you share your website if you have one? >> could you share your website if you have one? >> I don't actually have one. >> I don't actually have one. >> your work sounds interesting. >> your work sounds interesting. >> I just started and Instagram thing. >> I just started and Instagram thing. >> that won't help me. >> that won't help me. >> she is also very modest >> she is also very modest and and backbones the organization she founded. backbones the organization she founded. >> with that in >> with that in mind, could you mind, could you put some of what you are doing in those photographs you put some of what you are doing in those photographs you described and juxtapose it with described and juxtapose it with someone like DNR this? someone like DNR this? And some other folks who take And some other folks who take images of people with images of people with disabilities but were not with disabilities but were not with those physical disabilities. those physical disabilities. Any thoughts on those Any thoughts on those documentary photographers? there documentary photographers? there is another photographer who is another photographer who passed away and put men who are passed away and put men who are missing on pedestals. missing on pedestals. As if they were Roman portions As if they were Roman portions of fragments of the of fragments of the sculptures. sculptures. I would be interested to hear I would be interested to hear someone's perspective. someone's perspective. >> are you interested in hearing >> are you interested in hearing Rebecca's perspective of the per trail of disability? Rebecca's perspective of the per trail of disability? >> thank you for refining my question. >> thank you for refining my question. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> when you are looking at art >> when you are looking at art that the trays -- art that that the trays -- art that betrays disability, what do you want to see? betrays disability, what do you want to see? >> a lot of times >> a lot of times disability has disability has been images of people, it is been images of people, it is either pity or inspiration. either pity or inspiration. I want to see I want to see real and I don't real and I don't want to see images of disability being the subject all the time. want to see images of disability being the subject all the time. But as a component of the whole But as a thing. component of the whole thing. >> what do you mean by real? >> what do you mean by real? I think your perspective of real I think your perspective of real is very different than the is very different than the perspective of someone who does perspective of someone who does not use a wheelchair. not use a wheelchair. >> what I mean >> what I mean is there is a is there is a spectrum going with a whole spectrum going with a whole spectrum in between. spectrum in between. I don't want to see images of I don't want to see images of people being sad or hopeless in people being sad or hopeless in the sunset like this? the sunset like this? There is a lot in between. There is a lot in between. And a lot of diversity that And a lot of diversity that makes for excellent content. makes for excellent content. >> >> we are four minutes over so we are four minutes over so we will give a round of applause to our two folks up here. we will give a round of applause to our two folks up here. We are going to break and have We are going to break and have lunch and come back at -- lunch and come back at -- >> any questions feel free to >> any questions feel free to write them on the post-its. write them on the post-its. Come back to lunch at 1 p.m. Come back to lunch at 1 p.m. You can speak over the lunch if You can speak over the lunch if you need to. you need to. >> Please stand by. >> Please stand by. >> Please stand by. >> Please stand by. . . . . . >> Please stand by. >> Please stand by. . . >> If I can have your attention, everyone. >> If I can have your attention, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Good. Once again, for anyone I did not Once again, for anyone I did not meet, I'm from the cultural trust. meet, I'm from the cultural trust. This is one of our many This is one of our many locations in the cultural locations in the cultural District we are in right now. District we are in right now. I would like to thank you all I would like to thank you all for your flexibility and for your flexibility and patience today. patience today. As you can tell, we have a lot As you can tell, we have a lot of old buildings in the cultural District. of old buildings in the cultural District. They have a varying level of They have a varying level of amenities. amenities. I am here to introduce our I am here to introduce our keynote conversation for the day. keynote conversation for the day. First of all, our interviewer is First of all, our interviewer is Beth Bienvenu from the National Beth Bienvenu from the National Endowment for the Arts. Endowment for the Arts. Beth , in her time at the Beth , in her time at the national endowment, has built national endowment, has built relationships, clustered relationships, clustered previous relationships people previous relationships people had with the INI a -- NEA and had with the INI a -- NEA and has revolutionized the way they has revolutionized the way they think about people with disabilities. think about people with disabilities. Beth will be interviewing D.J. Beth will be interviewing D.J. Kurs, who is the illustrious Kurs, who is the illustrious creative director of Deaf West. creative director of Deaf West. If anyone has not seen the work If anyone has not seen the work Deaf West did, it was featured Deaf West did, it was featured on the Tonys. on the Tonys. They had a wonderful run of the revival on Broadway this past year. They had a wonderful run of the revival on Broadway this past year. If anyone has not seen it, you If anyone has not seen it, you two -- YouTube it two -- YouTube it tonight and check it out. tonight and check it out. It is truly amazing. It is truly amazing. I'm going to turn it over to I'm going to turn it over to Beth to take it from there. Thank you. Beth to take it from there. Thank you. Beth: Thank you so much. Beth: Thank you so much. I think the show was a bit of a I think the show was a bit of a springboard for a lot of these conversations. springboard for a lot of these conversations. Last fall when our new theater Last fall when our new theater director came on board, he director came on board, he claims I cornered him in the claims I cornered him in the elevator lobby and said, have elevator lobby and said, have you seen "Spring awakening"? you seen "Spring awakening"? We just started talking about We just started talking about what we can do as an agency to what we can do as an agency to foster the field of deaf theater. foster the field of deaf theater. To give a tiny bit of To give a tiny bit of background, I have been at the background, I have been at the N.E.A. for six years. N.E.A. for six years. Before that, I was at the Labor Department. Before that, I was at the Labor Department. I also have an arts background so this dovetailed nicely. I also have an arts background so this dovetailed nicely. I have always had interest in careers in the arts for people I have always had interest in careers in the arts for people with disabilities. with disabilities. My office's main purpose is to My office's main purpose is to promote accessibility from the promote accessibility from the audience and participant perspective. audience and participant perspective. I see those is going hand-in-hand. I see those is going hand-in-hand. We are the federal funding We are the federal funding agency that funds arts across the country in all 50 states and agency that funds arts across the country in all 50 states and territories, every congressional district. territories, every congressional district. I really work with all of my colleagues to make sure they I really work with all of my colleagues to make sure they understand the importance of understand the importance of inclusion of people with disabilities and support for inclusion of people with disabilities and support for these programs. these programs. I also wanted to point out there I also wanted to point out there are several N.E.A. grantees in the room. are several N.E.A. grantees in the room. Raise your hand if you work for an organization that has Raise your hand if you work for an organization that has received a grant. received a grant. I see 10 or 12 hands in the air, I see 10 or 12 hands in the air, including the Vermont studio including the Vermont studio Center , three artists we will Center , three artists we will hear from soon and the Shakespeare Festival. hear from soon and the Shakespeare Festival. And also Deaf West. And also Deaf West. I had to double check. I had to double check. We have funded Deaf West since We have funded Deaf West since 1998. 1998. Including "big Including "big River," the other one that went to Broadway. River," the other one that went to Broadway. Last October, D.J. spoke to our Last October, D.J. spoke to our national counter -- council on the arts. national counter -- council on the arts. We decided to hold a roundtable We decided to hold a roundtable on fostering opportunities for on fostering opportunities for deaf theater artists. deaf theater artists. We worked with D.J. and other We worked with D.J. and other people in the field to develop people in the field to develop the roundtable we held in New the roundtable we held in New York in January. York in January. We had a great discussion. We had a great discussion. This is the report they came out of it. It is available on our website. This is the report they came out of it. It is available on our website. I encourage you to check that out. I encourage you to check that out. It developed a number of fragmentation for the field. It developed a number of fragmentation for the field. We hope to move forward many of those. We hope to move forward many of those. I am trying to make sure I'm I am trying to make sure I'm capturing all my notes before we move into our conversation. capturing all my notes before we move into our conversation. We think this is a pivotal We think this is a pivotal moment for the deaf community because there has been a lot of moment for the deaf community because there has been a lot of high-profile lately in many high-profile lately in many different sectors. different sectors. I am excited to see where Deaf I am excited to see where Deaf West is going from here, what West is going from here, what D.J. has been doing, and so I will start our conversation. D.J. has been doing, and so I will start our conversation. I would love to hear you talk I would love to hear you talk about how you got into theater about how you got into theater and how you arrived at Deaf West . and how you arrived at Deaf West . D.J.: I was lucky enough to go D.J.: I was lucky enough to go up -- grow up in Riverside. up -- grow up in Riverside. My parents had taken me to a My parents had taken me to a Deaf West show, several of their shows. Deaf West show, several of their shows. That theater became something in my heart that became part of me. That theater became something in my heart that became part of me. After I graduated , I moved down After I graduated , I moved down there because I thought they had the best artistic community of there because I thought they had the best artistic community of deaf people. deaf people. I wanted to be part of that I wanted to be part of that community. community. The biggest reason that community is there is because The biggest reason that community is there is because the Deaf West has been there. the Deaf West has been there. That is how I slowly became That is how I slowly became involved and started to scrape involved and started to scrape by with jobs cleaning floors, moved up to production and by with jobs cleaning floors, moved up to production and writing, and worked my way up. writing, and worked my way up. I became the artistic director I became the artistic director at the at the education Ed Warner retreat. education Ed Warner retreat. I was there three and a half years ago. I was there three and a half years ago. They had given me that position. They had given me that position. Beth: Great. Beth: Great. One thing Deaf West One thing Deaf West theater did theater did in 1991, it was our 25th in 1991, it was our 25th anniversary this year. anniversary this year. >> It has a strong history. >> It has a strong history. I have always thought of Washington, D.C., as having a I have always thought of Washington, D.C., as having a strong deaf community. strong deaf community. New York has a lot of people because it has a wonderful arts New York has a lot of people because it has a wonderful arts community and robust cultural sector. community and robust cultural sector. Even Rochester, New York. Even Rochester, New York. It is great to hear that Los It is great to hear that Los Angeles also has a deaf arts community. Angeles also has a deaf arts community. Talk about Talk about how Deaf West's approach to theater production. how Deaf West's approach to theater production. What the process is from What the process is from conception to performance and conception to performance and how deaf artists are how deaf artists are incorporated with hearing incorporated with hearing artists. artists. D.J.: D.J.: Our mission for the Our mission for the theater company is to bridge theater company is to bridge deaf and hearing communities and bring them together through theater. deaf and hearing communities and bring them together through theater. But we have got to look at our But we have got to look at our death audience members first -- death audience members first -- deaf audience members first, deaf audience members first, what is most important to them and accessibility to the what is most important to them and accessibility to the language and sign language and language and sign language and making sure everything in our making sure everything in our show is signed or captioned and accessible. show is signed or captioned and accessible. From there, we can figure out the speaking parts. From there, we can figure out the speaking parts. Our mission is to Our mission is to set that up and lead by example. set that up and lead by example. Welcoming hearing and deaf Welcoming hearing and deaf patrons to watch the same show but through different lenses. patrons to watch the same show but through different lenses. You cannot just say the hearing You cannot just say the hearing and deaf people are having the and deaf people are having the same experience and feeling the same experience and feeling the same ways in each show. same ways in each show. But at the same time, they are But at the same time, they are having access to the same show having access to the same show and can have the same discussions. and can have the same discussions. We think that is a beautiful thing and should be happening more often. We think that is a beautiful thing and should be happening more often. Also, we want to Also, we want to emphasize that emphasize that the deaf audience members are the most important part of our the deaf audience members are the most important part of our company. company. The deaf people give most of the The deaf people give most of the funding to our theater. funding to our theater. Because of that, we want more artists. Because of that, we want more artists. We want more theater. We want more theater. We want them to be invested in We want them to be invested in our theater as opposed to our theater as opposed to hearing individuals who may be hearing individuals who may be fascinated by our theater and then they leave after five years. fascinated by our theater and then they leave after five years. The deaf audience members and The deaf audience members and patrons know that we are here to patrons know that we are here to stay and they want us to continue and do more of what we are doing. stay and they want us to continue and do more of what we are doing. Beth: How is sign language or captioning incorporated into the Beth: How is sign language or captioning incorporated into the shows so both hearing audiences shows so both hearing audiences and deaf audiences are able to and deaf audiences are able to access it? access it? Describe that a little bit. Describe that a little bit. D.J.: Well, we are a bilingual approach to theater. D.J.: Well, we are a bilingual approach to theater. We put Simon which front and center. We put Simon which front and center. Sometimes we will have a voice Sometimes we will have a voice actor behind them during the show. actor behind them during the show. There is a diverse way of approaching that. There is a diverse way of approaching that. There is no rule for how we might do that. There is no rule for how we might do that. We give our directors freedom to We give our directors freedom to play around. play around. We don't dictate. We don't dictate. We tell them you can try one of several things. We tell them you can try one of several things. But they also know that there are limitations. But they also know that there are limitations. For example, sign language, it cannot have your back to the audience. For example, sign language, it cannot have your back to the audience. You have to make sure you are You have to make sure you are front and center and signing front and center and signing visibly and clearly. visibly and clearly. That is a big part of our process. That is a big part of our process. We like to play around with it We like to play around with it during rehearsals and see what works and what does not work. during rehearsals and see what works and what does not work. If we feel this is becoming a If we feel this is becoming a problem or it is restraining us , we figure that part out later. problem or it is restraining us , we figure that part out later. We We actually have a huge process. actually have a huge process. Right now, I'm speaking through Right now, I'm speaking through an interpreter. an interpreter. The interpreter I just met today for the first time. The interpreter I just met today for the first time. That kind of information and how That kind of information and how you express those features -- it you express those features -- it is a filter you are getting filtered through. is a filter you are getting filtered through. It is like any language. It is like any language. We have a beautiful language. We have a beautiful language. We play with that language. We play with that language. It is mobile. It is mobile. The boundaries are constantly being broken and tested. The boundaries are constantly being broken and tested. We wish we had a way to bring We wish we had a way to bring that to the spoken language. that to the spoken language. But at the same time, the But at the same time, the audience members who are deaf say we wish they would have said audience members who are deaf say we wish they would have said this or that. this or that. They always have that disconnect They always have that disconnect between the languages that happens. between the languages that happens. Sometimes they get that connection networks. Sometimes they get that connection networks. If it happened all the way that the mesh all the time that we, it would be boring. If it happened all the way that the mesh all the time that we, it would be boring. We like to play with different things. We like to play with different things. Does that answer your question? Does that answer your question? Beth: I am interested in that Beth: I am interested in that process. process. Is it a longer Is it a longer process in the process in the play development and rehearsal process? play development and rehearsal process? Is it lengthened? Is it lengthened? Is it also enriched in a way Is it also enriched in a way other productions are not? other productions are not? D.J.: We actually have a team of D.J.: We actually have a team of ASL coaches for each of the ASL coaches for each of the actors. actors. They work and rehearse together and make sure they are signing They work and rehearse together and make sure they are signing clearly. clearly. From the text how that gets From the text how that gets translated into sign and making sure the translation is a translated into sign and making sure the translation is a appropriate and based on the appropriate and based on the rider's -- writer's intent. rider's -- writer's intent. There are many different levels to that. There are many different levels to that. It is a long process and we take It is a long process and we take a week focusing on reading the a week focusing on reading the script and translating into sign language. script and translating into sign language. We have to teach the hearing actors sign language along the way. We have to teach the hearing actors sign language along the way. They have got to rehearse themselves. They have got to rehearse themselves. It is fascinating just how fast It is fascinating just how fast they learn it. they learn it. It It requires a commitment and requires a commitment and understanding and motivation. understanding and motivation. By the end of the show, the By the end of the show, the hearing are going along well enough to converse with the hearing are going along well enough to converse with the actors that are deaf. actors that are deaf. They are altogether. It is a beautiful thing. They are altogether. It is a beautiful thing. Beth: I was able to see a little Beth: I was able to see a little bit of that in action. bit of that in action. There were a lot of videos There were a lot of videos posted by the actors. posted by the actors. You can see the camaraderie You can see the camaraderie behind stage among the cast members. behind stage among the cast members. In the interviews they did with In the interviews they did with the press, you could see the the press, you could see the people that were double cast in people that were double cast in the same role, the hearing and deaf actors. the same role, the hearing and deaf actors. They seemed to have a real bond because they are playing the same character. They seemed to have a real bond because they are playing the same character. Does that enrich the experience Does that enrich the experience or product you are trying to or product you are trying to achieve, the interaction between achieve, the interaction between them? them? Do you ever have actors that Do you ever have actors that don't get along in those pairs? don't get along in those pairs? You don't have to name names. You don't have to name names. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] D.J.: Definitely. D.J.: Definitely. You always have one or two bad ones. I'm kidding. You always have one or two bad ones. I'm kidding. But yes, each person has their But yes, each person has their own -- everybody brings something else. own -- everybody brings something else. Some pick it up overnight. Some struggle. Some pick it up overnight. Some struggle. They have a hard time with it. They have a hard time with it. It is hard for hearing people to know how they feel. It is hard for hearing people to know how they feel. Sometimes you have to speak & at the same time. Sometimes you have to speak & at the same time. That is a challenge for everyone, even me as a deaf person. That is a challenge for everyone, even me as a deaf person. It is a challenge for all of them as well. It is a challenge for all of them as well. I think number one, we have to I think number one, we have to recognize that everything is recognize that everything is done in service of the play, of done in service of the play, of the production, and in service of the story being told. the production, and in service of the story being told. Everything else become secondary. Everything else become secondary. You have to look at what the experience should be to make You have to look at what the experience should be to make sure it is entertainment for the audience. sure it is entertainment for the audience. That is our responsibility to That is our responsibility to our patrons and audience, instead of focusing on the our patrons and audience, instead of focusing on the actors or all of the stuff behind the scenes. actors or all of the stuff behind the scenes. There is a balance we have to There is a balance we have to keep your we have to keep that in perspective. keep your we have to keep that in perspective. -- there is a balance we have to -- there is a balance we have to keep. keep. We have to keep that in perspective. We have to keep that in perspective. Because we have that limitation Because we have that limitation of sign language, we are of sign language, we are actually making art that is actually making art that is something new and different. something new and different. The hearing actors through that The hearing actors through that experience, they love it. They fall in love with it. experience, they love it. They fall in love with it. They keep coming back. They keep coming back. One of our actors who is from One of our actors who is from Broadway mentioned they had been Broadway mentioned they had been in many Broadway shows, and it in many Broadway shows, and it was the first time he finally knew what to do with his hands. was the first time he finally knew what to do with his hands. That was kind of interesting to me. That was kind of interesting to me. Instead of the issue of jazz hands, you know. Instead of the issue of jazz hands, you know. What do I do with my hands? What do I do with my hands? It was something interesting to me. It was something interesting to me. At the same time, the issue of At the same time, the issue of the choreography that was the choreography that was supporting the music. And at the same time, accessibility. supporting the music. And at the same time, accessibility. We had to think of several things at the same time. We had to think of several things at the same time. We wanted to know more. We wanted to know more. Beth: That was going to be one of the themes for the day. Beth: That was going to be one of the themes for the day. That supporting and creating That supporting and creating opportunities for people with opportunities for people with disabilities is innovative. disabilities is innovative. It drives innovation. It drives innovation. It is not "charity." It is not "charity." It is creating art in a new and different way that is more It is creating art in a new and different way that is more innovative and adds to the innovative and adds to the repertoire. repertoire. It adds to our experience. It adds to our experience. Is that the reaction you get Is that the reaction you get from the public when you perform? from the public when you perform? D.J.: It is an interesting D.J.: It is an interesting experience because we have been in L.A. 25 years. experience because we have been in L.A. 25 years. L.A. is used to us. L.A. is used to us. They keep coming to see our shows. They keep coming to see our shows. We have a great audience. We have a great audience. We always sell out our shows. We always sell out our shows. Then we come to New York and we Then we come to New York and we meet people that say you are meet people that say you are moving your hands too much. moving your hands too much. Why are you moving your hand so much? Why are you moving your hand so much? We have to explain it is sign language and part of the show. We have to explain it is sign language and part of the show. We found the education piece is We found the education piece is ongoing. ongoing. It never stops. It never stops. It is endless. We have got to keep explaining It is endless. We have got to keep explaining it and educating people as to it and educating people as to what we do. what we do. Sign language and why we have Sign language and why we have deaf actors on the same stage. deaf actors on the same stage. The experience of going to New The experience of going to New York and performing their made York and performing their made me realize how long we still have to go. me realize how long we still have to go. Beth: Yeah. Beth: Yeah. I think it takes a lot of I think it takes a lot of awareness raising. awareness raising. With "Spring Awakening," so many With "Spring Awakening," so many people saw it and appreciated the unique approach. people saw it and appreciated the unique approach. Hopefully, that did make an impact. Hopefully, that did make an impact. It was the first show -- It was the first show -- Broadway production to also Broadway production to also feature a wheelchair user. feature a wheelchair user. What was your experience or your What was your experience or your colleagues' experience in colleagues' experience in bringing Allie into the show? bringing Allie into the show? This conversation today is about a broad range of disability. This conversation today is about a broad range of disability. I'm sure you have things to share about how to incorporate I'm sure you have things to share about how to incorporate someone using a wheelchair when the Broadway houses are narrow someone using a wheelchair when the Broadway houses are narrow and inaccessible. and inaccessible. D.J.: Yeah. D.J.: Yeah. I think it goes back to our I think it goes back to our small, first production of small, first production of "Spring Awakening" in L.A. "Spring Awakening" in L.A. I remember when she came in the room. I remember when she came in the room. I remember some people next to I remember some people next to me got nervous. me got nervous. But we definitely know we have to do things like that. But we definitely know we have to do things like that. She is a very talented woman. She is a very talented woman. She is an amazing actor, a great singer. She is an amazing actor, a great singer. We knew that we had to make that We knew that we had to make that happen because of our experience happen because of our experience in making room for people in making room for people with with accessibility, we need to apply the same principle to others. accessibility, we need to apply the same principle to others. That was the discussion we had That was the discussion we had for a long time from the opening show, asking questions, making for a long time from the opening show, asking questions, making sure that was the type of dialogue that was open and sharing. sure that was the type of dialogue that was open and sharing. We learned a lot in the process. We learned a lot in the process. We came to New York and it was a We came to New York and it was a huge change. huge change. The theater was not accessible. The theater was not accessible. We really had to pay from our We really had to pay from our own pockets to make sure the own pockets to make sure the theater was accessible for theater was accessible for Allie and the doorframes Allie and the doorframes were appropriate. were appropriate. They also had to build a new bathroom for her. They also had to build a new bathroom for her. We had to build ramps, so many things. We had to build ramps, so many things. Everything costs money. Everything costs money. We found donations. We found donations. We found investors willing to We found investors willing to support that. support that. We were very fortunate to have that. We were very fortunate to have that. For me, it was fascinating how we found that out in the first For me, it was fascinating how we found that out in the first place. place. The first person with a The first person with a wheelchair ramp on Broadway, we wheelchair ramp on Broadway, we could not believe that at first. could not believe that at first. We did some searching. We did some searching. We found out. We found out. We asked the alliance for the We asked the alliance for the inclusion information. inclusion information. We said, is this true that she We said, is this true that she is the first person on Broadway? is the first person on Broadway? We could not believe that. We could not believe that. It was fascinating for me as a It was fascinating for me as a deaf person how people were so deaf person how people were so thrilled and celebrated Allie and her arrival on Broadway. thrilled and celebrated Allie and her arrival on Broadway. At the same time having deaf actors, they thought that was no big deal. At the same time having deaf actors, they thought that was no big deal. They were more excited by Allie. They were more excited by Allie. It is not a bad thing at all. It is not a bad thing at all. There was no jealousy or animosity. There was no jealousy or animosity. For me, it was interesting For me, it was interesting because as a deaf actor it was the first time we had that kind because as a deaf actor it was the first time we had that kind of awareness in the community compared to the wheelchair community. of awareness in the community compared to the wheelchair community. It was interesting. It was interesting. At the same time, we were all in the same boat together. At the same time, we were all in the same boat together. We were a group of artists, We were a group of artists, disability artists. disability artists. And hopefully, we were growing together and will continue to grow together. And hopefully, we were growing together and will continue to grow together. That is important to me. That is important to me. Beth: That is great. Beth: That is great. I think it was a really I think it was a really important moment to have so many important moment to have so many talented people on Broadway. talented people on Broadway. This past year, they have talked This past year, they have talked about how of all of the shows on about how of all of the shows on Broadway and those nominated for Broadway and those nominated for Tony awards, there was so much Tony awards, there was so much more diversity represented than the Oscars which people complained about. more diversity represented than the Oscars which people complained about. Do you see this as creating Do you see this as creating forward momentum with having forward momentum with having more people with disabilities in more people with disabilities in theater in general or Broadway specific? theater in general or Broadway specific? I know we have I know we have "Glass "Glass Menagerie" with another wheelchair user. Menagerie" with another wheelchair user. Do you see other movements forward? Do you see other movements forward? D.J.: I can see some ripple effects from that definitely. D.J.: I can see some ripple effects from that definitely. But at the same time, being But at the same time, being aware of the deaf people in the aware of the deaf people in the media and in television and film media and in television and film and theater since I was a little boy. and theater since I was a little boy. I know enough to understand that I know enough to understand that it happens in waves. I think the pendulum is always going to swing. it happens in waves. I think the pendulum is always going to swing. Hopefully we can keep up with Hopefully we can keep up with that when it swings as long as we can. that when it swings as long as we can. Personally Personally , I have a long perspective on things. , I have a long perspective on things. Instead of trying to worry about Instead of trying to worry about what will happen next year or what will happen next year or what other shows are coming up, what other shows are coming up, I want to make sure we are I want to make sure we are making art that is sustainable making art that is sustainable and interesting and new and from our own perspective and voice. and interesting and new and from our own perspective and voice. That is more important to me than having more of it and That is more important to me than having more of it and rushing out to strike while the iron is hot. rushing out to strike while the iron is hot. They like They like to see the disabled to see the disabled artists and actors keeping up their work. artists and actors keeping up their work. I would like to see all of them do more in the future. I would like to see all of them do more in the future. That is the long-term That is the long-term perspective I think. perspective I think. Beth: hopefully, we will be able to see that continue. Beth: hopefully, we will be able to see that continue. There is the pendulum metaphor. I also like to see it as the There is the pendulum metaphor. I also like to see it as the pendulum is on a rack and the pendulum is on a rack and the rack is constantly moving rack is constantly moving forward. forward. Even if the pendulum is swinging Even if the pendulum is swinging back, the thing it is on is still moving forward. back, the thing it is on is still moving forward. D.J.: Muhammadan moving the mountain. D.J.: Muhammadan moving the mountain. Beth: One important part of this Beth: One important part of this is having plays about the is having plays about the experience of having a disability or being deaf. experience of having a disability or being deaf. Do you see more plays being Do you see more plays being written by deaf playwrights were about the deaf experience? written by deaf playwrights were about the deaf experience? What can we do to foster more What can we do to foster more plays? plays? D.J.: That is tough to answer. D.J.: That is tough to answer. It is one I have been trying to solve for a while. It is one I have been trying to solve for a while. The theater itself is not The theater itself is not accessible. accessible. It is not an accessible art form for disabled people. It is not an accessible art form for disabled people. Deaf West is fortunate it is in Deaf West is fortunate it is in my backyard and I have learned my backyard and I have learned how to appreciate theater from Deaf West. how to appreciate theater from Deaf West. They have given me that. They have given me that. It is not something you have all It is not something you have all over the U.S. over the U.S. That experience does not exist for others. That experience does not exist for others. You have to start young and You have to start young and increase art education, making sure it is out there and deaf increase art education, making sure it is out there and deaf kids get access to theater so kids get access to theater so they feel the motivation to make that choice to go into theater. they feel the motivation to make that choice to go into theater. I am not saying -- We have deaf I am not saying -- We have deaf writers, but we need to develop writers, but we need to develop infrastructure for the deaf infrastructure for the deaf writers to be able to develop writers to be able to develop their work. their work. With other hearing artists, deaf artists, it does not matter who With other hearing artists, deaf artists, it does not matter who they collaborate with. they collaborate with. They are all working alone in silence. They are all working alone in silence. My goal is to bring them together. My goal is to bring them together. Also, at that level, knowing English is not our first Also, at that level, knowing English is not our first language so we are writing in language so we are writing in our second language, so to speak. our second language, so to speak. We have got to find a way to We have got to find a way to empower the deaf writers to write in their first language as empower the deaf writers to write in their first language as well and find ways to translate into a theater form. well and find ways to translate into a theater form. Beth: I have met a few people Beth: I have met a few people from theaters here today. from theaters here today. I know we will have theater people out there. I know we will have theater people out there. What would you recommend for What would you recommend for theater companies around the theater companies around the country that might want to country that might want to include more deaf actors, more include more deaf actors, more plays about the deaf experience? plays about the deaf experience? What recommendations do you have What recommendations do you have for including those actors, for including those actors, whether they are in a role written for a deaf character or whether they are in a role written for a deaf character or not? not? D.J.: My advice is always the same thing. D.J.: My advice is always the same thing. I have one piece of advice I always give. I have one piece of advice I always give. Get deaf people involved in the Get deaf people involved in the process. process. Deaf people, we are your best Deaf people, we are your best advocates and analyze -- Allies. advocates and analyze -- Allies. We have the answers to give. We know what it takes. We have the answers to give. We know what it takes. We understand what the process We understand what the process will entail and look like. will entail and look like. We are your best resource. We are your best resource. Also, the other thing, be Also, the other thing, be willing to learn and be open to that. willing to learn and be open to that. Your heart has to be in the Your heart has to be in the right place. right place. I don't mean -- I often meet some people who are very I don't mean -- I often meet some people who are very motivated by deaf artists and motivated by deaf artists and disability artists because of disability artists because of the opportunity for financial the opportunity for financial reasons. reasons. I recognize that does not work. I recognize that does not work. In the long run, it will not be successful. In the long run, it will not be successful. Your heart has to be in the right place for that. Your heart has to be in the right place for that. Beth: I think everybody in the room definitely has their hearts in the right place. Beth: I think everybody in the room definitely has their hearts in the right place. It is just figuring out how to make it work. It is just figuring out how to make it work. You were talking about students You were talking about students and kids interested in this. and kids interested in this. What suggestions would you have What suggestions would you have for deaf artists or artists with for deaf artists or artists with disabilities want to have a career in the arts? disabilities want to have a career in the arts? What would you recommend as they What would you recommend as they are in school, looking at are in school, looking at college, training, and moving out into the world? college, training, and moving out into the world? D.J.: that is a tough question to answer. D.J.: that is a tough question to answer. I wish it was an easier road for them. I wish it was an easier road for them. I wish we had paved it for them I wish we had paved it for them and there were wraps -- ramps and there were wraps -- ramps with interpreters lining the side of the road. Really, it is hard. with interpreters lining the side of the road. Really, it is hard. You have to have perseverance and keep going. You have to have perseverance and keep going. You have to have the motivation. You have to have the motivation. It makes me sad to see people who give up. It makes me sad to see people who give up. I know a lot of deaf individuals who veer off into something else. I know a lot of deaf individuals who veer off into something else. They have to get a job. They have to get a job. They have to go on with their life. They have to go on with their life. That makes me sad because That makes me sad because today's world was not designed for us. today's world was not designed for us. We might get there, like you We might get there, like you were saying, the pendulum and were saying, the pendulum and the rack keeps moving. the rack keeps moving. We might get there. But for now, we have to keep We might get there. But for now, we have to keep going in our dreams and keep the dream alive. going in our dreams and keep the dream alive. Beth: Let's talk a little bit Beth: Let's talk a little bit about deaf culture . about deaf culture . There is a term that has been There is a term that has been going around called "deaf going around called "deaf game." game." I think we can learn a lot about it for the rest of the disability community. I think we can learn a lot about it for the rest of the disability community. Explain what it is and how we Explain what it is and how we can apply to different parts of the disability world. can apply to different parts of the disability world. D.J.: Well, deaf D.J.: Well, deaf game is a play game is a play on words related to hearing loss. on words related to hearing loss. It is a reversal of hearing loss. It is a reversal of hearing loss. It is a reflection of something It is a reflection of something that is a benefit deaf people that is a benefit deaf people have over under -- other individuals. have over under -- other individuals. Because I don't have a microphone, I can express myself openly. Because I don't have a microphone, I can express myself openly. You can see all of my face. You can see all of my face. No offense to you. [LAUGHTER] No offense to you. [LAUGHTER] Because I am deaf, I am able to Because I am deaf, I am able to communicate at six months old with my parents. communicate at six months old with my parents. I could tell them I wanted milk. I could tell them I wanted milk. This is the sign for milk. This is the sign for milk. I had that advantage over hearing babies. I had that advantage over hearing babies. Because I am deaf, I have more ability to see in my peripheral Because I am deaf, I have more ability to see in my peripheral vision and see a powerful field vision and see a powerful field of peripheral vision more than of peripheral vision more than hearing people might notice or would tend to see. hearing people might notice or would tend to see. We are more sensitive. We are more sensitive. We rely on our eyes and I contact. We rely on our eyes and I contact. We are very visual people. We are very visual people. Our meetings tend to go very Our meetings tend to go very well because there is one person speaking at a time. well because there is one person speaking at a time. There is turn taking. There is turn taking. We require more collective effort. We require more collective effort. And collaboration in one room to And collaboration in one room to make sure everybody is in line make sure everybody is in line with what is going on. That process is effective. with what is going on. That process is effective. We have that advantage over We have that advantage over hearing individuals who run the same kind of meeting. hearing individuals who run the same kind of meeting. It could apply to other It could apply to other disabilities as well. disabilities as well. For example, sign language as a language is a blessing. For example, sign language as a language is a blessing. We feel fortunate to have it. We feel fortunate to have it. It is part of our rich community It is part of our rich community with a beautiful language with a beautiful language We enjoy and play with and it We enjoy and play with and it grows with us. That also applies to theater. grows with us. That also applies to theater. We feel like we -- it is just the tip of the iceberg. We feel like we -- it is just the tip of the iceberg. There is more to come. We will see it grow. There is more to come. We will see it grow. Hopefully, that community will Hopefully, that community will become more mainstream. become more mainstream. Does that get to the heart of what you wanted to ask me? Does that get to the heart of what you wanted to ask me? . . Beth: I think so. Beth: I think so. I was thinking about David's performance this morning that I was thinking about David's performance this morning that reveal the benefits to his reveal the benefits to his disability for certain roles he disability for certain roles he could have that involve someone could have that involve someone missing a hand. missing a hand. The often gruesome ways he can The often gruesome ways he can get roles and the benefit of that. get roles and the benefit of that. I was just referring to the sword. I was just referring to the sword. I still have that image in my I still have that image in my head. head. There are ways the disability can be of benefit. There are ways the disability can be of benefit. I think people need to take that forward. I think people need to take that forward. It brings me to my other It brings me to my other question I wanted to bring out. question I wanted to bring out. D.J. did a -- D.J. did a -- . . D.J.: Before you go on, I had one thing I wanted to add. D.J.: Before you go on, I had one thing I wanted to add. Because we are trying to communicate with our hearing Because we are trying to communicate with our hearing parents as children, I noticed parents as children, I noticed many deaf actors are great many deaf actors are great actors because they have a head start on acting things out, trying to get their needs met. actors because they have a head start on acting things out, trying to get their needs met. They want something to eat or They want something to eat or drink could that process of growing up with the body language is a Head Start for drink could that process of growing up with the body language is a Head Start for them overhearing performance. them overhearing performance. That is a generalization. That is a generalization. It is not all people. It is not all people. But in general, I think that is an advantage for us. But in general, I think that is an advantage for us. The other thing is that people The other thing is that people tend to wear our heart on our sleeve. tend to wear our heart on our sleeve. You have really got to communicate using your eyes and eye contact. You have really got to communicate using your eyes and eye contact. It is harder for us to lie. It is harder for us to lie. We have to maintain eye contact while we do it. We have to maintain eye contact while we do it. It is a talent we learn as how It is a talent we learn as how to communicate. It is a benefit for us on the stage. to communicate. It is a benefit for us on the stage. Beth: I had the idea of is not Beth: I had the idea of is not going to mention one of the going to mention one of the currently most famous deaf currently most famous deaf individuals because he has two individuals because he has two now he shows and one was for his work as a model. now he shows and one was for his work as a model. They were saying it is his eyes. They were saying it is his eyes. He has a piercing stare because He has a piercing stare because it is a visual language. it is a visual language. That has probably helped him. That has probably helped him. Also knowing how to use his facial expressions and working with his body. Also knowing how to use his facial expressions and working with his body. I can see that also as a benefit for actors. I can see that also as a benefit for actors. I won't mention that again. I won't mention that again. D.J.: It is true. D.J.: It is true. The deaf community loves him. The deaf community loves him. Not because he is nice to look Not because he is nice to look at and has won all of these shows, but because he comes from at and has won all of these shows, but because he comes from a place of where he wants to a place of where he wants to help the deaf children and speak help the deaf children and speak about that on film. about that on film. He talks about that in his motivation and need for He talks about that in his motivation and need for educating deaf children and giving back to the community. educating deaf children and giving back to the community. The deaf community is in love with him for that. The deaf community is in love with him for that. Beth: he has done a lot. Beth: he has done a lot. D.J.: It is an important part of D.J.: It is an important part of the whole picture. the whole picture. Beth: He has done a lot to raise Beth: He has done a lot to raise awareness of ASL education. awareness of ASL education. The average person in our The average person in our country does not understand that country does not understand that if children do not learn ASL if children do not learn ASL from the earliest ages that they from the earliest ages that they cannot learn English as easily. cannot learn English as easily. Therefore, he is really advocating for that. Therefore, he is really advocating for that. I think that is really important for a lot of us to know. I think that is really important for a lot of us to know. The importance of early The importance of early childhood ASL education. childhood ASL education. D.J.: Yes. D.J.: Yes. Beth: I think we all need it because then we can enjoy these Beth: I think we all need it because then we can enjoy these types of productions and have more meaningful conversations. types of productions and have more meaningful conversations. I also wanted to mention along I also wanted to mention along those same lines, your TEDx Broadway talk. those same lines, your TEDx Broadway talk. "Our limitations are our "Our limitations are our superpowers." superpowers." I know we got into that a bit I know we got into that a bit with the deaf game conversation. with the deaf game conversation. Do you have anything else on what you mean by that and how Do you have anything else on what you mean by that and how that can play into your work? that can play into your work? D.J.: I think in that top, I was D.J.: I think in that top, I was talking about the process of talking about the process of rehearsal and bringing in rehearsal and bringing in hearing actors and how they come hearing actors and how they come into that process and start into that process and start learning sign language and learning sign language and having full icon at the less having full icon at the less full eye contact and becoming aware of the room and communication. full eye contact and becoming aware of the room and communication. That helps them become better actors. That helps them become better actors. By way of doing that, we really By way of doing that, we really advance the field. advance the field. I cannot tell you how many I cannot tell you how many famous actors that have worked famous actors that have worked with Deaf West and are also talking about that. with Deaf West and are also talking about that. They have mentioned how They have mentioned how enriching that expense was to enriching that expense was to making them better -- experience was to making the better actors and people in general. making them better -- experience was to making the better actors and people in general. That is a beautiful thing. That is a beautiful thing. Not just that we benefit as the Not just that we benefit as the deaf community, but also we are deaf community, but also we are affecting the community at large affecting the community at large and advancing the whole art form as a whole. and advancing the whole art form as a whole. Beth: Great. Beth: Great. We are running up to the point We are running up to the point where we would have some Q&A. where we would have some Q&A. Is there anything else you Is there anything else you wanted to talk about? wanted to talk about? D.J.: The more questions, the better. D.J.: The more questions, the better. This has been important for me. This has been important for me. I think it is important to have I think it is important to have a dialogue instead of me a dialogue instead of me lecturing on the stage. lecturing on the stage. We are concerned with the larger picture here. We are concerned with the larger picture here. The big picture of performing The big picture of performing with a disability. with a disability. That is what we really want to discuss. That is what we really want to discuss. That is what we want to be able to achieve as a whole. That is what we want to be able to achieve as a whole. For me, that is the question. For me, that is the question. We want to keep it going and keep that dialogue open. We want to keep it going and keep that dialogue open. Beth: OK. Beth: OK. Before we move on, I wanted to Before we move on, I wanted to point out we handed out on the point out we handed out on the tables a handout from an online tables a handout from an online dialogue the N.E.A. had in conjunction with the Labor dialogue the N.E.A. had in conjunction with the Labor Department and national arts and Department and national arts and disability center, an online disability center, an online dialogue on careers in the arts for people with disabilities. dialogue on careers in the arts for people with disabilities. We had this in June. We had this in June. It was a two-weeklong dialogue. It was a two-weeklong dialogue. Around 400 people participated Around 400 people participated posting over 100 unique ideas, posting over 100 unique ideas, numerous comments, to talk about what the issues are, the numerous comments, to talk about what the issues are, the barriers, the things people can barriers, the things people can work on to remove barriers and work on to remove barriers and create more opportunities for create more opportunities for people in the arts, people with disabilities wanting to work in people in the arts, people with disabilities wanting to work in the arts weather as artists, the arts weather as artists, administrators, or other roles. administrators, or other roles. Take a look at this. Take a look at this. We have large print copies. We have large print copies. I can e-mail those to anyone who needs an electronic copy. I can e-mail those to anyone who needs an electronic copy. Right now, we are developing a report. Right now, we are developing a report. We will be coming up with next We will be coming up with next steps for what we can do to continue the dialogue. steps for what we can do to continue the dialogue. Please let me know if you have questions about that. Please let me know if you have questions about that. I guess we will open it up for questions. I guess we will open it up for questions. >> Hello. >> Hello. My name is Jackie. My name is Jackie. I am curious if you can speak I am curious if you can speak about what the lobby experience is like in these shows. about what the lobby experience is like in these shows. For our shows where we have ASL interpretation, we find our For our shows where we have ASL interpretation, we find our audience is very segregated in audience is very segregated in the lobby. the lobby. We have those who can speak ASL and those who cannot. We have those who can speak ASL and those who cannot. We have tried to integrate our audience for those shows and get We have tried to integrate our audience for those shows and get people to make a new friend at people to make a new friend at the theater by bringing in the theater by bringing in volunteers who can speak ASL so they can meet a new friend and volunteers who can speak ASL so they can meet a new friend and have somebody there who can have somebody there who can speak to them. speak to them. I am curious if there are other I am curious if there are other things we could take as things we could take as immediate best practice. immediate best practice. The you find your audience stays segregated? The you find your audience stays segregated? How does that work? How does that work? D.J.: I think it is very D.J.: I think it is very challenging to create an organic challenging to create an organic environment where the hearing and deaf people can mingle together. environment where the hearing and deaf people can mingle together. They are separated by language. They are separated by language. But at Deaf West, we do try to do some games, different But at Deaf West, we do try to do some games, different exercises, charades. exercises, charades. That kind of experience where it That kind of experience where it forces people to step out of their comfort level. forces people to step out of their comfort level. Before our shows, we have ASL classes. Before our shows, we have ASL classes. We also invite the deaf audience members to join in with me as the instructor. We also invite the deaf audience members to join in with me as the instructor. We bring them up to help me. We bring them up to help me. We don't have a spoken We don't have a spoken interpreter or anything like that in our ASL classes. interpreter or anything like that in our ASL classes. It is all written. Body language, communication. It is all written. Body language, communication. It is a fun experience. It is a fun experience. That tends to break the ice a little coming in. That tends to break the ice a little coming in. If we just tried to stick two If we just tried to stick two people together with an people together with an interpreting student, it would probably be hard to make that happen. interpreting student, it would probably be hard to make that happen. First of all, as deaf people, we come to the theater to enjoy ourselves. First of all, as deaf people, we come to the theater to enjoy ourselves. Often, that experience I have to Often, that experience I have to now deal with a hearing person. now deal with a hearing person. I have enough going on to adding that on top every day. I have enough going on to adding that on top every day. We have come to the experience to enjoy ourselves. We have come to the experience to enjoy ourselves. There is that balance. We recognize the politics of the give and take. There is that balance. We recognize the politics of the give and take. Beth: I want to put in a plug Beth: I want to put in a plug for hiring deaf people on your for hiring deaf people on your staff. staff. I know I am probably preaching I know I am probably preaching to the choir here. to the choir here. But at the N.E.A., we have had But at the N.E.A., we have had deaf interns. deaf interns. There are lots of way to There are lots of way to communicate with technology communicate with technology today. today. They can provide more insight They can provide more insight into what audience members need. into what audience members need. There are a lot of accommodations. There are a lot of accommodations. I want to mention I want to mention -- I don't want to single her out too much. -- I don't want to single her out too much. We have a person hear from "Dog We have a person hear from "Dog and Pony." and Pony." I forget the name of it. I forget the name of it. You have these ASL You have these ASL chats -- ASL chats -- ASL pickup where people can learn pickup where people can learn sign. sign. We have the benefit of having that at Yale University. We have the benefit of having that at Yale University. The neighborhoods around, the waiters at the restaurants and The neighborhoods around, the waiters at the restaurants and bars know at least some sign. bars know at least some sign. They want to be able to They want to be able to communicate with the students communicate with the students and faculty. and faculty. The more people become aware and The more people become aware and learn some sign, and I know I learn some sign, and I know I need to learn some, I also need to learn some, I also advocate you start with your advocate you start with your kids when they are really little because it is really hard when they are older. kids when they are really little because it is really hard when they are older. >> >> Before we get the microphone Before we get the microphone to anyone else, I am asking a question I want to ask. to anyone else, I am asking a question I want to ask. Since I am holding a microphone, I'm going to do it. Since I am holding a microphone, I'm going to do it. Totally rude, but I can do that Totally rude, but I can do that today. today. I did not have a chance to see I did not have a chance to see "Spring Awakening" on Broadway. "Spring Awakening" on Broadway. But every time I watch the But every time I watch the segment I have seen online, I am segment I have seen online, I am blown away by the depth of it blown away by the depth of it because I see interviews with because I see interviews with the cast. the cast. I want to take a moment to point I want to take a moment to point out You have two extraordinarily competent actors playing the out You have two extraordinarily competent actors playing the same role on the stage at the same role on the stage at the same time. same time. There is a level of ego There is a level of ego management involved in that that management involved in that that kind of blows my mind. kind of blows my mind. The thing that I saw in the cast The thing that I saw in the cast interviews and on stage was that interviews and on stage was that everybody got along, and it was everybody got along, and it was tight. tight. You did not just have people working together. You did not just have people working together. You created a community and family in many ways. You created a community and family in many ways. I think that is the theater I think that is the theater experience actors want. experience actors want. I was I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about this wondering if you could talk a little bit about this process of creating a family process of creating a family where the deaf people are the where the deaf people are the center and the power. center and the power. And you are bringing the hearing And you are bringing the hearing actors into your world. actors into your world. And doing it by the way in a way And doing it by the way in a way that is so beautiful it makes me cry. that is so beautiful it makes me cry. I am kind of a fan girl seat and let that go. I am kind of a fan girl seat and let that go. I wanted you to talk a little bit about that. What that is like. I wanted you to talk a little bit about that. What that is like. D.J.: D.J.: Well, we just have a question asking about the organic environments and how that happens. Well, we just have a question asking about the organic environments and how that happens. Really, it is the environment of everybody wanting to make good Really, it is the environment of everybody wanting to make good art. art. That is the number one motivation for being there. They are all actors. That is the number one motivation for being there. They are all actors. We have brought people in trying We have brought people in trying to improve their craft, that are to improve their craft, that are motivated, and they are quick motivated, and they are quick learners. learners. They are working with another They are working with another coworker. coworker. They have to talk about all those details. They have to talk about all those details. They have high standards for themselves. They have high standards for themselves. They want to make sure they are They want to make sure they are doing a good job on the stage. doing a good job on the stage. Throughout the process, it becomes natural. Throughout the process, it becomes natural. They naturally become family. They naturally become family. One other thing. One other thing. There's also a learning curve. There's also a learning curve. I think the number one thing as I think the number one thing as actors they learn is they have to let go of their ego. actors they learn is they have to let go of their ego. In the process of letting go of In the process of letting go of that, it is much easier. that, it is much easier. The harder part is the beginning of the curve. The harder part is the beginning of the curve. Once they get over the hump, Once they get over the hump, everything becomes natural. everything becomes natural. >> I am Sarah. >> I am Sarah. I also want to follow up to that. I also want to follow up to that. Whoever cast the show, I'm Whoever cast the show, I'm guessing they do that very well. guessing they do that very well. I don't know if that is you or I don't know if that is you or not, but I think that probably not, but I think that probably has a lot to do with it. has a lot to do with it. D.J.: Well, we actually have our D.J.: Well, we actually have our casting director and the artistic director. casting director and the artistic director. We have the team. We have the team. I think we are fortunate because people want to work with our I think we are fortunate because people want to work with our theater group. theater group. That helps. That helps. >> I have kind of a practical question. >> I have kind of a practical question. You mentioned on Broadway that you had to make some You mentioned on Broadway that you had to make some accommodations for your actors accommodations for your actors who used a wheelchair -- your who used a wheelchair -- your actress who used a wheelchair. actress who used a wheelchair. Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe I misunderstood. But it sounded like you said the production raised money and had But it sounded like you said the production raised money and had donors to make that possible. donors to make that possible. Did the production have to pay Did the production have to pay for those adjustments rather for those adjustments rather than those who own the theater than those who own the theater where the show was? where the show was? D.J.: no, yeah. D.J.: no, yeah. Don't ask me why. Don't ask me why. Broadway is very old-fashioned in that way. Broadway is very old-fashioned in that way. >> wow. >> wow. That blows my mind. That blows my mind. My other question is, when does the tour start and where is it My other question is, when does the tour start and where is it going and how do I make sure it going and how do I make sure it comes to Pittsburgh? comes to Pittsburgh? [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] D.J.: I hope it does. D.J.: I hope it does. We are in the process of We are in the process of developing the tour. developing the tour. We are trying to figure out which cities. We are trying to figure out which cities. I saw Pittsburgh is on the list. I saw Pittsburgh is on the list. Beth: And Washington, D.C.? Beth: And Washington, D.C.? . . D.J.: And the Kennedy Center, yes. D.J.: And the Kennedy Center, yes. >> Can I just say, Sally Conway >> Can I just say, Sally Conway runs the Department of Justice runs the Department of Justice civil rights division, A.D.A. civil rights division, A.D.A. enforcement provision. enforcement provision. I think maybe we have to sic her I think maybe we have to sic her on them. on them. >> My name is Claire. >> My name is Claire. You touched a little bit on this before. You touched a little bit on this before. I am curious to know what your I am curious to know what your selection process is like at selection process is like at Deaf West and things that excite Deaf West and things that excite you in theater and things you wish you would see more of. you in theater and things you wish you would see more of. D.J.: Well, both. D.J.: Well, both. I notice we tend to I notice we tend to pick shows pick shows that have meaning for the deaf that have meaning for the deaf community. community. For example, "Spring Awakening" For example, "Spring Awakening" is a show about communication. is a show about communication. I personally did not do that. I personally did not do that. But it hit me during the opening But it hit me during the opening scene where the mother has to scene where the mother has to explain to her deaf daughter explain to her deaf daughter about the birds and the bees about the birds and the bees that it is a very common that it is a very common experience in the deaf community. experience in the deaf community. Deaf girls don't find out about the birds and bees until much Deaf girls don't find out about the birds and bees until much later than most people. later than most people. We had to find a show that has We had to find a show that has some time to our -- some tie to some time to our -- some tie to our community but also stuff our community but also stuff that is fun to do, comedies, stuff that people will enjoy. that is fun to do, comedies, stuff that people will enjoy. We have an audience and we want to keep them coming back. We have an audience and we want to keep them coming back. We don't always want to have heavy, dramatic stories. We don't always want to have heavy, dramatic stories. We have to keep a balance. We have to keep a balance. We also have a huge children's We also have a huge children's audience so we tailor performances to children as well. audience so we tailor performances to children as well. We feel having a variety to pick We feel having a variety to pick from keeps the audience in mind. from keeps the audience in mind. >> Questions, anyone? >> Questions, anyone? >> >> I want to put in a plug for a I want to put in a plug for a few other elements of deaf few other elements of deaf culture and art. culture and art. When we talk about artist When we talk about artist residencies, the Edison Center residencies, the Edison Center in Minnesota has a residency for deaf artists. in Minnesota has a residency for deaf artists. It is primarily visual artists It is primarily visual artists and writers at this point. and writers at this point. I am not sure if they will open I am not sure if they will open it up to other types of artists. it up to other types of artists. Two years ago, they had a Two years ago, they had a handful of deaf, five or so. handful of deaf, five or so. This year, they had five. This year, they had five. They happened to be all women. They happened to be all women. The goal from my own perspective is it is great to have The goal from my own perspective is it is great to have integrated residency experiences where you have people with and without disabilities working together. integrated residency experiences where you have people with and without disabilities working together. For deaf artists, having an For deaf artists, having an opportunity for everybody opportunity for everybody speaking the same language and speaking the same language and they have the same culture. they have the same culture. I think those are wonderful I think those are wonderful experiences. experiences. They just had their second round. They just had their second round. Hopefully, they will continue that. Hopefully, they will continue that. The other is deaf architecture The other is deaf architecture and design. and design. I think I mentioned Gallaudet a I think I mentioned Gallaudet a few times in this hour. few times in this hour. I have worked with their architects. I have worked with their architects. D.J.: Deaf Space? D.J.: Deaf Space? Beth: Yes. Thank you. I have worked with the architect Beth: Yes. Thank you. I have worked with the architect at Dell attacked -- Gallatin -- at Dell attacked -- Gallatin -- Gallaudet. Gallaudet. It is amazing things they are It is amazing things they are doing , things most of us do not think about. doing, things most of us do not think about. A lot of things we can learn A lot of things we can learn when designing spaces, setting when designing spaces, setting up rooms for meetings. up rooms for meetings. The fact we did not want to be backlit here. The fact we did not want to be backlit here. Those are things they bring to architecture and theater. Those are things they bring to architecture and theater. I thought that was really I thought that was really fascinating. fascinating. Did you encounter any of that ? Did you encounter any of that ? You were probably more focused on being a college student. You were probably more focused on being a college student. Are those things you think about Are those things you think about when designing on stage and other elements of your life? when designing on stage and other elements of your life? . . D.J.: Right. D.J.: Right. We wanted to make sure we were We wanted to make sure we were bringing visual equivalents to the auditory. bringing visual equivalents to the auditory. In our theater, we have several In our theater, we have several first -- subwoofers. first -- subwoofers. We allow deaf people to feel the beats. We allow deaf people to feel the beats. We make sure the lights are set We make sure the lights are set up properly and the changing is in accordance with the music. up properly and the changing is in accordance with the music. The mood, we try to reflect what the lights are so the mood of The mood, we try to reflect what the lights are so the mood of the lighting matches the music and that kind of thing. the lighting matches the music and that kind of thing. We definitely take a lot of time with that in mind to do as much We definitely take a lot of time with that in mind to do as much as we can as possible. as we can as possible. There is a limit to the budget. That is the ceiling you hit all the time. There is a limit to the budget. That is the ceiling you hit all the time. There is always more we can do. There is always more we can do. Another thing I wanted to touch Another thing I wanted to touch on in our conversation that I think is important is we need to be making our own art. on in our conversation that I think is important is we need to be making our own art. On our own terms. On our own terms. Instead of waiting for the Instead of waiting for the system to give us an opportunity for it. system to give us an opportunity for it. I think that is something that I think that is something that is a big Takeaway from my is a big Takeaway from my experience as an artist and experience as an artist and artistic director. artistic director. I still write. I still write. I remember when I used to wait for the system to give me the opportunity. I remember when I used to wait for the system to give me the opportunity. Now that I am older and wiser, I Now that I am older and wiser, I feel we cannot wait for people feel we cannot wait for people to change to adapt to us. to change to adapt to us. I feel it we have got to be more I feel it we have got to be more proactive in finding our opportunities ourselves and proactive in finding our opportunities ourselves and making our own art. making our own art. Beth: I think that is a great Beth: I think that is a great note to leave on. note to leave on. Do we have another question? Do we have another question? >> Do we have time? >> Do we have time? I was curious from an acting I was curious from an acting perspective. perspective. I know some of the challenges idea with in terms of I know some of the challenges idea with in terms of accommodation in auditions and accommodation in auditions and places that are not so inclusive or inclusively minded. places that are not so inclusive or inclusively minded. I am curious what the deaf actor I am curious what the deaf actor experience is in that situation. experience is in that situation. I was just thinking about when I I was just thinking about when I auditioned for grad school. auditioned for grad school. If there is a young actor who If there is a young actor who wants to go and addition for a wants to go and addition for a graduate school, I am just graduate school, I am just curious about what that curious about what that experience is. experience is. D.J.: It is pretty much the same. D.J.: It is pretty much the same. A lot of frustration for the deaf actor. A lot of frustration for the deaf actor. For example, is show up at the audition and there is no interpreter. For example, is show up at the audition and there is no interpreter. They have got to bring and pay for their own interpreter. They have got to bring and pay for their own interpreter. Often, they will have an interpreter that is an intern and probably not qualified. Often, they will have an interpreter that is an intern and probably not qualified. Often, the interpreter will be Often, the interpreter will be monotone so all the actors sound monotone so all the actors sound the same. the same. So they are giving them the same So they are giving them the same feed. feed. It is based on your facial expression and acting ability. It is based on your facial expression and acting ability. That does not always come through in the interpretation. That does not always come through in the interpretation. That is frustrating for the actor. That is frustrating for the actor. I don't know what the best way I don't know what the best way is, but it is unique. is, but it is unique. It is the ongoing education It is the ongoing education piece of it where I think the piece of it where I think the artistic directors can be more vocal and involved in the process. artistic directors can be more vocal and involved in the process. But right now, it seems they want to be more of a neutral But right now, it seems they want to be more of a neutral party and just be the facilitator. party and just be the facilitator. But really, they can be doing But really, they can be doing more to help change the system. more to help change the system. It needs to change. It needs to change. People need to be more aware. People need to be more aware. It is hitting the wall. It is hitting the wall. >> My question for you is, what for hearing people who are >> My question for you is, what for hearing people who are auditioning deaf actors, what is auditioning deaf actors, what is the ideal situation for that the ideal situation for that audition? audition? And how should they assess the And how should they assess the actor? actor? D.J.: Yeah. D.J.: Yeah. They should have -- a hearing person should have a deaf person by their side. They should have -- a hearing person should have a deaf person by their side. Someone they can trust, that there is ongoing conversation. Someone they can trust, that there is ongoing conversation. In Deaf West, we have the person In Deaf West, we have the person that does that. I am the person that tells the that does that. I am the person that tells the director and actor you have a director and actor you have a strong specific intent here. strong specific intent here. You can see the different You can see the different perspectives, from the deaf perspective and hearing perspectives, from the deaf perspective and hearing perspective and give the full perspective and give the full picture required in 18. picture required in 18. -- 18. -- 18. This requires teamwork. This requires teamwork. Often, hearing people think they know everything. Often, hearing people think they know everything. That tends to be common. That tends to be common. >> I want to ask you. >> I want to ask you. I have the mic so I'm going to ask the question. I have the mic so I'm going to ask the question. It was the question asked of It was the question asked of Reveca earlier. Reveca earlier. When you are looking at theater, visual art, anything portraying When you are looking at theater, visual art, anything portraying people who are deaf, what do you people who are deaf, what do you want to see? want to see? D.J.: D.J.: I think for me it is I think for me it is important that they are good, important that they are good, number one. number one. I don't want to see bad art. I don't want to see bad art. But more importantly, I am interested in their perspective. But more importantly, I am interested in their perspective. What we bring to the material. What we bring to the material. Visual arts, theater, whatever Visual arts, theater, whatever it might be. it might be. Making sure we are bringing Making sure we are bringing something new and it is not just something new and it is not just a repeat of what everybody else a repeat of what everybody else is doing. is doing. I think it is important in our I think it is important in our process as deaf artists. process as deaf artists. It does not have to be explicit. It does not have to be explicit. Some deaf writers, Some deaf writers, when they when they write for me it is fascinating write for me it is fascinating because I am paying attention to specific things hearing people don't notice. because I am paying attention to specific things hearing people don't notice. It is not there explicitly to the hearing people. It is not there explicitly to the hearing people. It is not obvious to them. It is not obvious to them. It is the voice I am looking for. It is the voice I am looking for. Beth: Just one other topic. Beth: Just one other topic. Since we just came off a week of talking about accessibility and Since we just came off a week of talking about accessibility and the practicality and costs, one the practicality and costs, one of the fears of including people of the fears of including people who are deaf and have other disabilities is the cost. who are deaf and have other disabilities is the cost. But one of the issues raised in But one of the issues raised in our roundtable in January was our roundtable in January was when "Big River" was in New when "Big River" was in New York, the theater director said York, the theater director said the cost was not any different the cost was not any different than bringing in someone from than bringing in someone from England to come and perform and England to come and perform and putting them up in a hotel or apartment. putting them up in a hotel or apartment. The costs really are not any greater than any other theater cost. The costs really are not any greater than any other theater cost. She was talking about how some She was talking about how some of the costs in accommodating her were not more than other of the costs in accommodating her were not more than other things. things. I think you said bringing in a pink elephant or something. I think you said bringing in a pink elephant or something. If they could bring that in, they could bring in a wheelchair user. If they could bring that in, they could bring in a wheelchair user. The costs are similar. The costs are similar. There are a lot of costs associated with elephants and horses. There are a lot of costs associated with elephants and horses. There are all these other things that are very similar to that. There are all these other things that are very similar to that. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? D.J.: Like we were talking about D.J.: Like we were talking about earlier, the cost of earlier, the cost of accessibility for the accessibility for the wheelchairs. wheelchairs. I think for her wheelchair, it I think for her wheelchair, it was $7,000. was $7,000. But that is small compared to But that is small compared to the whole budget of $4.5 million for the show itself. the whole budget of $4.5 million for the show itself. Again, talking about people who Again, talking about people who are willing to make the changes, are willing to make the changes, to change their mindset and to change their mindset and hearts instead of looking at the budget only. hearts instead of looking at the budget only. You have to look at the bigger You have to look at the bigger picture. picture. Beth: I agree. Beth: I agree. Were there any other questions? Were there any other questions? Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you. D.J.: Thank you for having me. D.J.: Thank you for having me. And thank you to the interpreter. And thank you to the interpreter. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] Beth: We are going to take 15 minutes and we will be back. Beth: We are going to take 15 minutes and we will be back. Thank you. Thank you. >> OK, we will ask folks to >> OK, we will ask folks to start finding their seats please. start finding their seats please. OK, I think we are going to get started. OK, I think we are going to get started. Hi, everybody. Hi, everybody. Thanks for coming back. Thanks for coming back. I know we have sort of a post I know we have sort of a post lunch doldrums. So, thank you so much. lunch doldrums. So, thank you so much. So, I am so fortunate to be So, I am so fortunate to be sitting between two incredibly sitting between two incredibly talented people that are really talented people that are really at the forefront of innovation for artists with disabilities at the forefront of innovation for artists with disabilities and artists in general. and artists in general. This is Esther Grimm, the This is Esther Grimm, the executive director of 3Arts in Chicago, and she will talk more executive director of 3Arts in Chicago, and she will talk more about 3Arts in a moment. about 3Arts in a moment. This is -- This is -- are choreographer, are choreographer, some of you may have seen his some of you may have seen his brilliant performance on Thursday night. brilliant performance on Thursday night. Barak is a choreographer based Barak is a choreographer based in Chicago whose work explores race. in Chicago whose work explores race. We will talk more about that We will talk more about that work in a few moments. work in a few moments. I think our conversation will follow a similar model to the I think our conversation will follow a similar model to the Vermont Studios Center because I Vermont Studios Center because I think the setup think the setup is similar, minus the physical structure of the studio. is similar, minus the physical structure of the studio. So, when I was talking to So, when I was talking to Esther Esther lest week about preparing for this interview, she said lest week about preparing for this interview, she said something interesting to me that something interesting to me that sparked, that framed our whole sparked, that framed our whole day, in my view. day, in my view. She said, art is about change -- She said, art is about change -- negotiation, negotiation, managing, evolving. managing, evolving. Avoiding becoming static. I think today is about how can Avoiding becoming static. I think today is about how can we we as arts organizations become more innovative, become more as arts organizations become more innovative, become more exciting, become revolutionary, exciting, become revolutionary, and present artists on stage and behind the scenes that are and present artists on stage and behind the scenes that are making works that actually making works that actually speaks to the human experience in a way that we have not speaks to the human experience in a way that we have not traditionally seen because we traditionally seen because we have then in a more static have then in a more static mode, traditional mode of thinking. mode, traditional mode of thinking. I think that that is how I like I think that that is how I like to frame this conversation. to frame this conversation. I think I'm going to stand -- I think I'm going to stand -- start with you, Esther, talking start with you, Esther, talking about the history of 3Arts. about the history of 3Arts. Esther: I'm kind Esther: I'm kind of amazed that of amazed that I said that quote. Has that ever happened to you? I said that quote. Has that ever happened to you? You say something and it sounds You say something and it sounds really good when someone else says it. really good when someone else says it. I am also on the board of I am also on the board of alliance of artists communities, alliance of artists communities, which has come up a few times, which has come up a few times, and I want you to know that you and I want you to know that you have been heard. have been heard. We have a board of accessibility, and we are beginning a survey of all of our We have a board of accessibility, and we are beginning a survey of all of our members to ask them and tell us members to ask them and tell us more deeply what they mean when they say, are the residency more deeply what they mean when they say, are the residency programs accessible? programs accessible? If anyone has any more input on If anyone has any more input on behalf of that organization, behalf of that organization, please tell me before the day is over. please tell me before the day is over. So, you are among the rare people who get to hear the back So, you are among the rare people who get to hear the back story of 3Arts. story of 3Arts. It is a long history. It is a long history. I will really super abbreviated, I will really super abbreviated, because we want to make sure we have time for a real dialogue in this room. because we want to make sure we have time for a real dialogue in this room. 3Arts today is a nonprofit 3Arts today is a nonprofit grantmaking and arts service grantmaking and arts service visitation supporting women, visitation supporting women, artists of color, artists with artists of color, artists with disabilities in the Chicago area disabilities in the Chicago area -- a big mouthful. -- a big mouthful. It is about nine years old. It is about nine years old. It stems from a 104 --year-old It stems from a 104 --year-old organization known as the 3Arts organization known as the 3Arts club of Chicago, followed by -- club of Chicago, followed by -- founded by Jane Adams and about 30 other civic leaders who founded by Jane Adams and about 30 other civic leaders who identified that women were completely unrepresented in the identified that women were completely unrepresented in the arts and wanted to help them arts and wanted to help them have a chance to go to the big have a chance to go to the big city, learn their craft, and city, learn their craft, and become representative on stages, become representative on stages, in museums, and so on. in museums, and so on. This is at a time before women have the right to vote, so it This is at a time before women have the right to vote, so it was critically important. at was critically important. at there were at one point eight there were at one point eight such clubs located around the such clubs located around the world. world. London, Paris, New York, L.A. , London, Paris, New York, L.A. , Chicago, and Cincinnati and Cleveland. Chicago, and Cincinnati and Cleveland. They could stay there in They could stay there in subsidized housing under the subsidized housing under the watchful title of what might watchful title of what might title would have been -- what my title would have been in those title would have been -- what my title would have been in those days, "the direc tress." days, "the direc tress." As the world evolved a little As the world evolved a little bit, time went forward. All of the other clubs had bit, time went forward. All of the other clubs had closed, and our organization cap going as an alternative closed, and our organization cap going as an alternative dormitory for women studying the arts in Chicago. dormitory for women studying the arts in Chicago. All of the other arts schools did not have the All of the other arts schools did not have the state-of-the-art dorms they have state-of-the-art dorms they have right now. right now. I came on the scene -- I can't believe it -- 14 years ago. I came on the scene -- I can't believe it -- 14 years ago. And the board at that time hired And the board at that time hired me and said, we need to can me and said, we need to can temporize the mission. temporize the mission. This historic This historic property needs to property needs to go through change. go through change. I'm going to fast-forward I'm going to fast-forward through all we looked into doing through all we looked into doing and get to where we are now, right? and get to where we are now, right? And that is, we ended up selling that beautiful historic And that is, we ended up selling that beautiful historic property, because to just property, because to just restore and renovate it was restore and renovate it was about $30 million. about $30 million. It is a 50,000-square-foot property. It is a 50,000-square-foot property. We did not have the wherewithal to do that. We did not have the wherewithal to do that. We decided to carry forward the We decided to carry forward the tenants of our founding mother' tenants of our founding mother' s mission, Jane Adams' mission in thinking about social justice s mission, Jane Adams' mission in thinking about social justice and equity. and equity. And when I round -- when I went And when I round -- when I went around to organizations around around to organizations around the country, did research, and the country, did research, and found out who was receiving, for found out who was receiving, for example -- what artists were example -- what artists were receiving grants and awards and receiving grants and awards and so on, it became really clear so on, it became really clear that women were still that women were still underrepresented, underserved, underrepresented, underserved, especially in cash grants. especially in cash grants. But people of color even more so But people of color even more so and people with disabilities even more so. and people with disabilities even more so. We expanded on that founding We expanded on that founding mission to include these three mission to include these three groups of people. groups of people. I want to expand him one more I want to expand him one more thing, Christine, because I know thing, Christine, because I know you want to ask your questions. you want to ask your questions. There is a controversy in our There is a controversy in our mission, and I think it shines a mission, and I think it shines a light on the imperfection of words in the world. light on the imperfection of words in the world. You know, we had a choice. You know, we had a choice. We could say 3Arts supports We could say 3Arts supports underrepresented artists, and underrepresented artists, and then build into our national jury panels and nomination then build into our national jury panels and nomination systems that all of that a systems that all of that a desire to support diversity. desire to support diversity. But we really labored over this But we really labored over this and decided, you know what? We are to make an overt and decided, you know what? We are to make an overt statement -- again, as statement -- again, as uncomfortable as that make some uncomfortable as that make some people -- it is sort of in the same vein as affirmative action people -- it is sort of in the same vein as affirmative action made and still makes some old made and still makes some old uncomfortable, because we feel that is part of our advocacy. uncomfortable, because we feel that is part of our advocacy. We give We give unrestricted awards to unrestricted awards to artists each year in the Chicago area. artists each year in the Chicago area. Unrestricted, they can do what Unrestricted, they can do what ever they want. ever they want. Once you are an awardee of Once you are an awardee of hours, you can apply for an hours, you can apply for an international network of residency fellowship, all international network of residency fellowship, all expenses paid, airfare, expenses paid, airfare, monthlong residencies and places from France to Florida. monthlong residencies and places from France to Florida. We also offer project support for our awardees and other We also offer project support for our awardees and other organization artists in Chicago. organization artists in Chicago. It is crowdfunding, but 3Arts It is crowdfunding, but 3Arts pays for a third of every pays for a third of every project and I am proud to say we project and I am proud to say we have 100% success rate and 65 have 100% success rate and 65 projects funded to date. projects funded to date. That's it. That's it. >> OK, can you talk about which disciplines? >> OK, can you talk about which disciplines? Esther: Esther: Yes, I always forget -- Yes, I always forget -- anyway, the whole story of 3Arts anyway, the whole story of 3Arts is starting somewhere and growing and changing and is starting somewhere and growing and changing and listening and growing and changing and listening. listening and growing and changing and listening. We began with music, theater, We began with music, theater, and visual arts. and visual arts. We had 16,000 dollars when we opened our doors in 2008, and we We had 16,000 dollars when we opened our doors in 2008, and we read some studies about dance, especially in Chicago, and read some studies about dance, especially in Chicago, and recognized as is probably the recognized as is probably the most undernourished, in terms of most undernourished, in terms of funding, where we live. funding, where we live. I do not know if that is true here. I do not know if that is true here. Right, there you are. Right, there you are. So, we added dance. So, we added dance. I should say this -- when we I should say this -- when we sold the property, we invested sold the property, we invested the net proceeds from the sale the net proceeds from the sale -- you know, it was like mom and dad rubbing the two pennies -- you know, it was like mom and dad rubbing the two pennies together and saying, come on! together and saying, come on! When the recession hit, our When the recession hit, our portfolios went from $9.5 portfolios went from $9.5 million to $5 million. million to $5 million. That told us we needed to start fundraising. That told us we needed to start fundraising. We did a study that told We did a study that told us that us that artists are under employed at artists are under employed at twice the rate of other twice the rate of other professionals during the professionals during the recession, and we said, you recession, and we said, you know, that is double the amount know, that is double the amount of our award. of our award. We had dance, and then We had dance, and then we had we had teaching arts. teaching arts. Maybe that is something all of Maybe that is something all of you will feel some affinity for as well. you will feel some affinity for as well. These are artists that are in These are artists that are in the mix based on their own the mix based on their own artwork, projects that they artwork, projects that they create and prisons, hospitals, create and prisons, hospitals, schools, afterschool programs, and so on. schools, afterschool programs, and so on. >> that is great. >> that is great. I'm going to ask a question I I'm going to ask a question I have not asked already because I am interested, because I met have not asked already because I am interested, because I met Esther about three years ago Esther about three years ago when I came out and was a judge for these awards, which was a when I came out and was a judge for these awards, which was a fascinating experience for me. fascinating experience for me. I'm wondering where that funding I'm wondering where that funding comes from. comes from. For me as For me as an artist, when I an artist, when I heard $25,000 of unrestricted heard $25,000 of unrestricted cash grant to be used however cash grant to be used however you want, that was shocking to me. you want, that was shocking to me. So, I am really interested in the funding piece of it. So, I am really interested in the funding piece of it. Esther: Yeah, that is a good question. Esther: Yeah, that is a good question. It all goes back to the building. It all goes back to the building. In the old days, we paid using In the old days, we paid using our own money, the net proceeds we had invested. our own money, the net proceeds we had invested. We had may be $17,000 of We had may be $17,000 of contributed income that all came from our board that year. contributed income that all came from our board that year. Again, it was the rubbing of two Again, it was the rubbing of two pennies together and hoping. pennies together and hoping. The next year, we raised 74,000 The next year, we raised 74,000 dollars of contributed income and the next $100,000, but we dollars of contributed income and the next $100,000, but we were still making up the difference using our own coffers, essentially. were still making up the difference using our own coffers, essentially. When the investments had gone When the investments had gone well, the dividends and interest had spun off and were paying for well, the dividends and interest had spun off and were paying for our staff in those days, and we our staff in those days, and we were making a draw from the corpus and trying to increase were making a draw from the corpus and trying to increase fund raising efforts without a fund raising efforts without a fundraiser on staff, so it was fundraiser on staff, so it was kind of hard, and a seven-member board at the time. kind of hard, and a seven-member board at the time. At the end of 2014, there was a At the end of 2014, there was a big change at our organization. big change at our organization. I lobbied as hard as I think any I lobbied as hard as I think any executive director could, and we executive director could, and we hired a director of programs and hired a director of programs and they spent the last year they spent the last year training and she is now running them, except for the one we are training and she is now running them, except for the one we are going to talk about today. going to talk about today. And that left me in the woeful position, or I guess it depends And that left me in the woeful position, or I guess it depends on how you look at these things on how you look at these things -- to be the fundraiser we were missing before. -- to be the fundraiser we were missing before. To be a full-time fundraiser. To be a full-time fundraiser. Last year, we raised 660 Last year, we raised 660 thousand dollars of contributed thousand dollars of contributed income. income. Some corporations are basically Some corporations are basically sponsoring our annual awards presentation. We have naming opportunities for sponsoring our annual awards presentation. We have naming opportunities for our awards, so, you know, the our awards, so, you know, the Gardiner family gives us $25,000 to name an award. Gardiner family gives us $25,000 to name an award. That means it is the 3Arts G That means it is the 3Arts G ardener Family awards. ardener Family awards. We have a growing, but still We have a growing, but still small individual giving program. That is something that I have to work on more. small individual giving program. That is something that I have to work on more. It an interesting moment for me, It an interesting moment for me, to be really forthright, because I'm not a trained fundraiser. to be really forthright, because I'm not a trained fundraiser. I have no problems speaking I have no problems speaking passionately about what we do passionately about what we do and that is pretty much all I have to go on. and that is pretty much all I have to go on. I am still the only staff I am still the only staff working on fundraising. working on fundraising. This year, we are projecting, This year, we are projecting, knock on wood -- everybody knock knock on wood -- everybody knock on wood -- on wood -- $410,000 contributed $410,000 contributed income, and I think the sweet income, and I think the sweet spot will be when we can raise spot will be when we can raise at least $500,000. at least $500,000. Our budget is $970,000 -- all of the grants, the staff, Our budget is $970,000 -- all of the grants, the staff, everything. everything. If we can raise maybe 500,000 dollars in contributed income, If we can raise maybe 500,000 dollars in contributed income, and the rest can come from our and the rest can come from our portfolios, I think we have a portfolios, I think we have a chance to stay around for a chance to stay around for a while. while. Our goal is to be here in Our goal is to be here in perpetuity, so this fundraising perpetuity, so this fundraising business, as terrible as it is to bring up, is really important. business, as terrible as it is to bring up, is really important. >> yes, excellent. >> yes, excellent. Now we are going to get into the meat of why these two wonderful Now we are going to get into the meat of why these two wonderful people, I am sandwiched between people, I am sandwiched between them. them. So, was it -- is it three years So, was it -- is it three years or two years? or two years? Two years ago, you developed a Two years ago, you developed a new program. new program. And of course I wrote it down, And of course I wrote it down, exactly what it was called. exactly what it was called. The 3Arts disability culture Fellowship? The 3Arts disability culture Fellowship? The 3Arts fellowship in culture and disability? The 3Arts fellowship in culture and disability? Esther: no, just 3Arts fellowship. Esther: no, just 3Arts fellowship. 3Arts fellowship at the University of Chicago, that's the name. 3Arts fellowship at the University of Chicago, that's the name. >> can you tell us what that is and how it came about? >> can you tell us what that is and how it came about? Esther: Because the other party Esther: Because the other party is far more interesting than I is far more interesting than I am -- I am the nuts and bolts am -- I am the nuts and bolts part of the team. I alluded to the fact we haven't part of the team. I alluded to the fact we haven't awards presentation every year at the easy them of contemporary awards presentation every year at the easy them of contemporary Art in Chicago -- we have an awards presentation every year Art in Chicago -- we have an awards presentation every year at the Museum of contemporary Art in Chicago. at the Museum of contemporary Art in Chicago. It seems like we have a backward approach. It seems like we have a backward approach. A lot of organizations are A lot of organizations are thinking of audiences when they think about accessibility. thinking of audiences when they think about accessibility. We were thinking about artist's, We were thinking about artist's, because that is who we serve. because that is who we serve. We looked out into the artist We looked out into the artist and realized we had made a and realized we had made a mistake. mistake. We were doing everything we could do, because I could see no We were doing everything we could do, because I could see no one with at least physical one with at least physical disability is in the audience, disability is in the audience, whereas we had artists on the whereas we had artists on the stage representing disability stage representing disability culture. culture. This was an eye-opening This was an eye-opening experience from which I have never returned. It almost made me stumble in my experience from which I have never returned. It almost made me stumble in my speech as I saw that, and I speech as I saw that, and I contacted someone some of you contacted someone some of you might know -- Dr. Carey Sandahl, might know -- Dr. Carey Sandahl, a theater artist and a force in a theater artist and a force in the disability culture community. the disability culture community. I said, what are we doing wrong? She said, come to my office. I said, what are we doing wrong? She said, come to my office. We ironed out how we would have We ironed out how we would have personal assistance and ASL personal assistance and ASL signing, and what else did we signing, and what else did we have, Gina? Captioning. have, Gina? Captioning. We captioned all of our award vehicles. We captioned all of our award vehicles. We hard captioned them. We hard captioned them. We did not rely on screen readers because we were getting We did not rely on screen readers because we were getting gobbledygook when we did. We have gone through seven years gobbledygook when we did. We have gone through seven years of award videos and four years of award videos and four years of project videos. of project videos. Did all of that. Did all of that. In the next couple of years, standing at the podium, I In the next couple of years, standing at the podium, I realized we maxed out the seating, there were seeing eye realized we maxed out the seating, there were seeing eye dogs in the audience. dogs in the audience. I did not know about audio I did not know about audio description and I was giving a talk at the Society of description and I was giving a talk at the Society of disability studies conference disability studies conference and some of he said, what about audio description? and some of he said, what about audio description? I said, you can hear everything. I said, you can hear everything. And they said, yeah, but you have dance on stage. And they said, yeah, but you have dance on stage. I am sharing this with you, I am sharing this with you, because really our story is a because really our story is a natural story of that which we natural story of that which we didn't know and having to keep our ears open. didn't know and having to keep our ears open. So, I went back to her with one problem we had observed. So, I went back to her with one problem we had observed. In this international Fellowship In this international Fellowship , I realized the artists with , I realized the artists with disabilities we support or not applying, and I talked to a disabilities we support or not applying, and I talked to a couple and I said, why don't you couple and I said, why don't you want to be want to be friends, weight and friends, weight and you want to go to the Rauschenberg residency on you want to go to the Rauschenberg residency on Captiva Island? Captiva Island? They said to be 45 minutes away They said to be 45 minutes away from the nearest medical facility is not something I can do. from the nearest medical facility is not something I can do. And I thought, I am going to And I thought, I am going to call Carey. call Carey. I said, I have an idea. I said, I have an idea. I will create customized I will create customized residency fellowships locally that do not travel, but still residency fellowships locally that do not travel, but still have prestige. have prestige. Who is a good partner? Who is a good partner? Where do I go? In under a minute, the program Where do I go? In under a minute, the program was basically a gun because she said, UIC. was basically a gun because she said, UIC. We will do it. We will do it. Did I go on a tangent? Did I go on a tangent? She is letting me go. I'm sorry. She is letting me go. I'm sorry. It is a long story. It is a long story. I am trying my best to fast I am trying my best to fast forward we sat down over many forward we sat down over many months and talked about what we months and talked about what we wanted to do with this program. wanted to do with this program. All of our other residencies -- All of our other residencies -- almost all of them -- our almost all of them -- our retreat style residencies, and we thought, this one might be a retreat style residencies, and we thought, this one might be a little bit different. It might be really focused on an little bit different. It might be really focused on an issue we both had taught me to issue we both had taught me to understand about a will is full understand about a will is full -- a woeful dearth -- a woeful dearth of of opportunities for artists with disabilities. opportunities for artists with disabilities. So there is a circular problem here. So there is a circular problem here. UIC represents artists with disabilities, but if they are UIC represents artists with disabilities, but if they are not finding their way onto stages and gallery walls, how do not finding their way onto stages and gallery walls, how do we find these artists to bring we find these artists to bring into residencies and awards? into residencies and awards? It's a very confusing dilemma. It's a very confusing dilemma. We decided a solution might be to build into this professional development Fellowship a series We decided a solution might be to build into this professional development Fellowship a series of public events, a chance to of public events, a chance to perform publicly, a chance to be perform publicly, a chance to be placed under the spotlight in placed under the spotlight in stages around Chicago, a chance stages around Chicago, a chance to speak on panels, to raise to speak on panels, to raise awareness. It is a path, I guess, to awareness. It is a path, I guess, to supporting artists, but also increasing the dialogue around a supporting artists, but also increasing the dialogue around a city about disability culture and trying to make a change. city about disability culture and trying to make a change. Artists receive a $1500 stipend. It can be within a two or Artists receive a $1500 stipend. It can be within a two or three-month period. three-month period. Artists do not have to be there Artists do not have to be there at set times. at set times. We pay for the accommodations. We pay for the accommodations. UIC offers UIC offers paid teaching paid teaching opportunity, paid artist gigs, and again, we have public opportunity, paid artist gigs, and again, we have public panels, public presentations panels, public presentations woven in. woven in. In our first year, it was such a pilot year. In our first year, it was such a pilot year. It was a customized residency that we worked on with the It was a customized residency that we worked on with the artist's, and there -- with the artist's, and there -- with the artists, and there were lots of artists, and there were lots of missteps and learning curves, missteps and learning curves, but two of the artist s made but two of the artist s made exceptional work including exceptional work including Robert sleigh for, a theater artist and a teaching artist to Robert sleigh for, a theater artist and a teaching artist to is -- wh is -- wh o is deaf, who wanted o is deaf, who wanted to translate into ASL. to translate into ASL. That is what we helped him do. That is what we helped him do. I'm pleased to announce that I'm pleased to announce that Steppenwolf Theatre Company is Steppenwolf Theatre Company is going to be showing that. going to be showing that. Not on the main stage, but what is it -- Not on the main stage, but what is it -- >> publicly I declined to talk about that. >> publicly I declined to talk about that. >> OK, so we started to see some momentum here. >> OK, so we started to see some momentum here. Through our UIC fellows, we are Through our UIC fellows, we are getting into the early stages. getting into the early stages. Our last fellow worked on a solo Our last fellow worked on a solo show called "a little bit not show called "a little bit not normal." normal." She is an artist talking about mental illness and growing up She is an artist talking about mental illness and growing up the daughter of deaf parents and the daughter of deaf parents and all of that is woven in the all of that is woven in the autograph it were -- the autograph it were -- the autobiographical piece. autobiographical piece. We just got word that that is being picked up. We just got word that that is being picked up. This little program -- for This little program -- for artists -- 4 artists so far -- artists -- 4 artists so far -- I must give kudos to an organization that really I must give kudos to an organization that really deserves them. deserves them. >> I have a quick question >> I have a quick question before we get to the recipient before we get to the recipient of this fellowship. of this fellowship. We talked on the phone about the We talked on the phone about the fact that you move back and fact that you move back and forth in trying to decide, well, forth in trying to decide, well, if you want to make these if you want to make these fellowships specific fellowships specific residencies, and what was the residencies, and what was the discussion around that in terms discussion around that in terms of how to identify the artist, of how to identify the artist, the community you were trying to the community you were trying to target without singling the target without singling the community out? community out? Esther: Yes, I alluded to this Esther: Yes, I alluded to this already, the disability -- the already, the disability -- the disabilities of language and identity politics, I guess, you disabilities of language and identity politics, I guess, you would say? would say? We We knew we would have a program knew we would have a program supporting individual artists supporting individual artists creating the work they want to creating the work they want to create in the world and artists create in the world and artists creating a dialogue around disability culture. creating a dialogue around disability culture. To get to what Christine is To get to what Christine is getting at, we wrote our first press release, and the banner getting at, we wrote our first press release, and the banner said -- first ever university-based fellowship said -- first ever university-based fellowship supports artists with disabilities. And because we really care what supports artists with disabilities. And because we really care what artists think , that got ran past a couple artists with artists think , that got ran past a couple artists with disabilities who gave us the disabilities who gave us the input, I thought you picked me input, I thought you picked me for this because I'm making for this because I'm making great work, not because I'm an great work, not because I'm an artist with a disability. We kind of thought about that. artist with a disability. We kind of thought about that. We thought about, it really is for artists with disabilities, We thought about, it really is for artists with disabilities, so we had to say that, but we so we had to say that, but we understood what the artists were understood what the artists were saying, so how do we handle that? saying, so how do we handle that? We went back to the drawing We went back to the drawing board and leaned more heavily on board and leaned more heavily on the public funding part of the the public funding part of the program, and to be heading changed to unprecedented new program, and to be heading changed to unprecedented new university-based fellowship supporting disability culture. university-based fellowship supporting disability culture. And we thought, we've done it. And we thought, we've done it. This is great. This is great. It is the perfect way to save us. It is the perfect way to save us. And the press release went out And the press release went out to everybody, and a couple days to everybody, and a couple days later our PR team called me and later our PR team called me and said, we want you to see an e-mail we just got from a said, we want you to see an e-mail we just got from a journalist. It was a very terse one line journalist. It was a very terse one line that said, "great program, but there is no such thing as that said, "great program, but there is no such thing as disability culture." disability culture." I sat on that for 24 hours. I sat on that for 24 hours. The entirety of 3Arts is built The entirety of 3Arts is built on the idea of listening and on the idea of listening and responding, even if we are imperfect. responding, even if we are imperfect. Then I thought, let me get this lady's number. I called her and we had a long talk. Then I thought, let me get this lady's number. I called her and we had a long talk. It turns out she is a journalist with a disability. It turns out she is a journalist with a disability. She said, all artists should be She said, all artists should be considered just artists, should considered just artists, should not be again a fight as women, people of color, people with disabilities. not be again a fight as women, people of color, people with disabilities. I explained to her we are trying to change the world and as part I explained to her we are trying to change the world and as part of our advocacy, make a statement. of our advocacy, make a statement. We never came to a full We never came to a full agreement, but it didn't matter. agreement, but it didn't matter. It was a very good, very helpful conversation. It was a very good, very helpful conversation. Christine: Which is the perfect Christine: Which is the perfect segue and talking about Barak. segue and talking about Barak. You received the fellowship in You received the fellowship in the 2014-15 season, is that the 2014-15 season, is that right? right? Or the 2015-16 season. Or the 2015-16 season. First of all, congratulations. First of all, congratulations. I am going to ask you something I am going to ask you something provocative -- is there such a thing as disability culture? provocative -- is there such a thing as disability culture? Barak: First, thank you. I want to introduce myself. Barak: First, thank you. I want to introduce myself. I am Barak adè Soleil. I am Barak adè Soleil. I sold within a fight as clear, I sold within a fight as clear, black -- queer, black -- queer, black, black, and that conversation asks questions we and that conversation asks questions we think about identify and how we self identify. think about identify and how we self identify. It is one thing to be a person It is one thing to be a person who self identifies and claim who self identifies and claim and own that, and it's another and own that, and it's another thing to be projected on, to be thing to be projected on, to be categorized, and tokenized. categorized, and tokenized. So, the notion and the politics So, the notion and the politics and precariousness around this and precariousness around this notion of what disability culture is is not to ask the notion of what disability culture is is not to ask the nondisabled community, those who nondisabled community, those who do not know what it is, but do not know what it is, but rather ask those who are in it rather ask those who are in it what it is, and like culture, it what it is, and like culture, it is ever evolving. It is rigorous. is ever evolving. It is rigorous. It is precarious. It is about the essence of It is precarious. It is about the essence of diversity, which means all of diversity, which means all of these things calm, up against these things calm, up against each other, and we strive and each other, and we strive and search for the common language. search for the common language. It is through the first voice perspective and I think it is It is through the first voice perspective and I think it is ultimately through those who ultimately through those who identify and choose to identify identify and choose to identify as disabled or having a as disabled or having a disability, it is to ask them disability, it is to ask them and to ask them, to ask the and to ask them, to ask the question, what is culture, and whether it is about disability question, what is culture, and whether it is about disability culture, queer culture, queer culture, we can keep on going -- it is culture. culture, we can keep on going -- it is culture. It impacts us, it moves us, and without it, we would not be here today. It impacts us, it moves us, and without it, we would not be here today. So I have to recognize the So I have to recognize the disability culture exists's, and disability culture exists's, and it exists because we are doing it exists because we are doing it right now, even when we do not think we are. it right now, even when we do not think we are. So, I want to talk about that. I have been making work and So, I want to talk about that. I have been making work and interpreting performance work interpreting performance work for 25 years professionally. for 25 years professionally. I currently focus my work on the intersection of race and I currently focus my work on the intersection of race and disability. disability. I brought up those other I brought up those other identifiers, not to say that one is more important than the identifiers, not to say that one is more important than the other, but rather, this other, but rather, this intersection is important for me to speak to and it speaks to intersection is important for me to speak to and it speaks to nuances, it nuances, it speaks to gender, it speaks to gender, it speaks to the privileges that speaks to the privileges that exist within my own gender, and exist within my own gender, and it allows for a kind of analysis it allows for a kind of analysis and a possibility of analysis through a creative lens, and and a possibility of analysis through a creative lens, and that is through the intersection that is through the intersection of race and disability. of race and disability. What does it mean when these two What does it mean when these two aspects and their intertwining aspects and their intertwining legacies are brought together in legacies are brought together in the world? How did they inform each other? the world? How did they inform each other? What nuances, what contouring, What nuances, what contouring, what dimensions occur because of that intersection? what dimensions occur because of that intersection? For me, throughout my work For me, throughout my work currently, which is really begun currently, which is really begun to speak to to speak to this, as within the this, as within the last deed of years honestly, I last deed of years honestly, I have been primarily focusing on have been primarily focusing on -- the last two years honestly, -- the last two years honestly, I have been primarily focusing I have been primarily focusing on race, the racialized body, through my own experience. on race, the racialized body, through my own experience. I began to focus on the culture I began to focus on the culture of disability, the aesthetics of disability. of disability, the aesthetics of disability. I began to go into research, I began to go into research, which is what I think we as which is what I think we as artists do across the board. And so, the way in which this artists do across the board. And so, the way in which this fellowship in 3Arts thoughtfully fellowship in 3Arts thoughtfully thought about this fellowship thought about this fellowship was to begin to say, well, I was to begin to say, well, I will be honest it -- first, you must identify as disabled. will be honest it -- first, you must identify as disabled. I think that reclaiming that I think that reclaiming that space, that is to say it is a space, that is to say it is a political rate it is a space of calling it out. political rate it is a space of calling it out. It is a space of consciousness. It is a space of consciousness. From there, are you making From there, are you making digital work? digital work? -- are you making good work? -- are you making good work? Yes, you recognize there is a Yes, you recognize there is a gap, this is a chasm that needs to be filled. gap, this is a chasm that needs to be filled. What are you invested in? What are you invested in? I was invested, through looking I was invested, through looking at the intersection of race and at the intersection of race and disability, and how to transmit disability, and how to transmit information and communicate that information to multiple information and communicate that information to multiple communities, centralizing the communities, centralizing the disabled and racialized community, which were me was also about not creating any kind disabled and racialized community, which were me was also about not creating any kind of binary, not creating any kind of binary, not creating any kind of relationship to the other or of relationship to the other or the hierarchical . Rather centralizing those two communities. the hierarchical. Rather centralizing those two communities. One of the things that became One of the things that became important to me is I am important to me is I am currently making dance work. currently making dance work. Dance work as a visual medium in Dance work as a visual medium in many ways. many ways. I was very fascinated with how I I was very fascinated with how I could communicate dance to those could communicate dance to those who do not necessarily think who do not necessarily think about site or si --ght or about site or si --ght or non-sighted fo non-sighted fo lk, those who are blind, those living with visual lk, those who are blind, those living with visual impairments. impairments. Then I began, through the Then I began, through the network, began to identify someone interested in having a network, began to identify someone interested in having a conversation around what does audio description look like for conversation around what does audio description look like for dance? dance? And it was through 3Arts and the And it was through 3Arts and the UI fellowship, going deeper into UI fellowship, going deeper into that -- the UIC fellowship, going deeper into the conversation. that -- the UIC fellowship, going deeper into the conversation. My job as a choreographer and a My job as a choreographer and a dancer, I also compose work. dancer, I also compose work. I know in my heart when audio I know in my heart when audio describe her's are describing describe her's are describing work, they are choreographers. work, they are choreographers. They are giving information and they are articulating the way in which the world will move in They are giving information and they are articulating the way in which the world will move in dance. dance. They are my collaborator, and they are the ultimate They are my collaborator, and they are the ultimate choreographer for those who use choreographer for those who use and want and desire to use that support. and want and desire to use that support. So, it became a two way So, it became a two way conversation around what does that mean and what does that look like? conversation around what does that mean and what does that look like? Can that inform my Can that inform my choreographic lens? choreographic lens? That became a search. That became a search. That was one. The other actually became sign That was one. The other actually became sign language, American sign language. language, American sign language. Because there are other, Because there are other, depending on where you go in the world. depending on where you go in the world. Because I was so, I have been so Because I was so, I have been so drawn to my life of making work drawn to my life of making work and interpreting work to gesture and gestural language, and I and interpreting work to gesture and gestural language, and I find there is a depth of beauty find there is a depth of beauty to sign, and I did know what to to sign, and I did know what to co-opt it and appropriate it because it is a specific co-opt it and appropriate it because it is a specific language that communicates and language that communicates and helps to communicate what I'm doing. So I began to engage with helps to communicate what I'm doing. So I began to engage with someone who comes from a family where she has had to utilize someone who comes from a family where she has had to utilize sign language and began to drop sign language and began to drop relationships between the choreographic notion of Chester relationships between the choreographic notion of Chester and gestural -- notion of and gestural -- notion of gesture and gestural language. gesture and gestural language. I won it to recognize the possibility, particularly how I won it to recognize the possibility, particularly how that can inform my work. that can inform my work. Those are two particular Those are two particular assistive devices -- technology assistive devices -- technology accommodations -- that I began accommodations -- that I began to draw into my aesthetic and recognize as part of disability to draw into my aesthetic and recognize as part of disability culture, and ways to continue to culture, and ways to continue to have, find relationships between have, find relationships between my own thoughts around what disability was and my own kind my own thoughts around what disability was and my own kind of a-day and what is happening of a-day and what is happening in the disability community. in the disability community. So, like So, like anything, like anything, like everyone, it is quite diverse. everyone, it is quite diverse. So, I had to find ways to let So, I had to find ways to let this information and the way I this information and the way I am sharing become more expansive through this work. am sharing become more expansive through this work. Christine: Christine: And it is in direct And it is in direct relationship to this fellowship, relationship to this fellowship, allowed you, supported you to go down those avenues? allowed you, supported you to go down those avenues? Barak: Exactly. Barak: Exactly. Christine: They made all of these things available to you? Christine: They made all of these things available to you? Barak: Well, and I would say Barak: Well, and I would say this is important -- they were this is important -- they were -- closer to the mic? -- closer to the mic? Christine: Thank you. Christine: Thank you. Barak: Closer to the mic. Barak: Closer to the mic. Between Between them, they know a them, they know a network of folks -- so, it's a network. network of folks -- so, it's a network. It is not so much about what they did for me. It is not so much about what they did for me. They would never approach it They would never approach it from a missionary model or what from a missionary model or what they laid the ground -- it is customized. they laid the ground -- it is customized. I began to ask questions. I began to ask questions. They began to say, this is a possibility. They began to say, this is a possibility. This is part of the network. This is part of the network. And could that network keep in And could that network keep in or provide an opportunity for or provide an opportunity for relationships question mark that is the thing. relationships question mark that is the thing. I got to know Esther before I received the Fellowship. I got to know Esther before I received the Fellowship. It It is through the articulation of relationships, the nuance in is through the articulation of relationships, the nuance in the relationships that this felt good to me. the relationships that this felt good to me. It was not someone not knowing It was not someone not knowing my work. my work. It was someone knowing my work It was someone knowing my work and saying, I would love to find and saying, I would love to find how we can support you and your continued discovery and abolition of your work. how we can support you and your continued discovery and abolition of your work. Christine: You mentioned the Christine: You mentioned the other night when you're at the talkback that you were -- I other night when you're at the talkback that you were -- I guess does she refer to herself guess does she refer to herself as a designer? as a designer? Talking about Sandy, if you want Talking about Sandy, if you want to talk for a second about your collaboration with your costume to talk for a second about your collaboration with your costume design with Sandy. design with Sandy. Barak: Yes, because part of that was I wanted knowledge the work Barak: Yes, because part of that was I wanted knowledge the work I was making and the work I I was making and the work I desired to make was highly desired to make was highly collaborative, and it always is. I really wanted to make that collaborative, and it always is. I really wanted to make that pronounced. pronounced. And for myself, I had been And for myself, I had been thinking particularly of about thinking particularly of about beginning to produce this work beginning to produce this work -- how did I engage the -- how did I engage the aesthetics of disability, the culture of disability in every aesthetics of disability, the culture of disability in every aspect of the work and production and process and administration? aspect of the work and production and process and administration? So, for me, it began to identify So, for me, it began to identify and connect with those who also identify as disabled. and connect with those who also identify as disabled. And so And so Sandy -- she is self Sandy -- she is self identifies as disabled -- and she talked about the way her identifies as disabled -- and she talked about the way her hands gives information. hands gives information. She hand stitched the work . She hand stitched the work . She hand stitched three-piece, She hand stitched three-piece, "turtle," I showed and excerpts from on Thursday. "turtle," I showed and excerpts from on Thursday. She hand stitched the shell. She hand stitched the shell. We dismantled some of the We dismantled some of the jean material, and she did all that work. jean material, and she did all that work. I felt like when I was in turtle I felt like when I was in turtle -- I felt like I was carrying -- I felt like I was carrying her energy and her essence and her energy and her essence and the beauty of thinking about, the beauty of thinking about, when hand work is done what that when hand work is done what that means and what that means for means and what that means for someone to put that energy into the work. I felt like she was very much someone to put that energy into the work. I felt like she was very much part of the world helping me part of the world helping me carry the work. carry the work. That is one of the beauties I That is one of the beauties I began to recognize and began to began to recognize and began to continue to think, how can I continue to think, how can I allow bringing the essence of allow bringing the essence of themselves? themselves? Talking with the line designer Talking with the line designer to reveal their disability -- revealed it after I began to to reveal their disability -- revealed it after I began to have conversations. have conversations. How do you bring yourself? How do you bring yourself? I have to I have to say, we all make work say, we all make work from our lived experiences. from our lived experiences. It is not all of a sudden, oh, It is not all of a sudden, oh, the disabled, now they are talking about -- you may the disabled, now they are talking about -- you may pronounce it. pronounce it. You may make it literal. You may make it literal. But we all create from our lived But we all create from our lived experiences. experiences. Whether or not we appreciate and Whether or not we appreciate and affirm how certain contributions affirm how certain contributions have not been acknowledged, have have not been acknowledged, have been invisiblized been invisiblized , have been a , have been a raised, this is an effort to raised, this is an effort to reaffirm, reship, and reaffirm, reship, and recontextualize the way this recontextualize the way this work is supported. work is supported. This is another linens we are This is another linens we are offering -- this is another lens we are offering. offering -- this is another lens we are offering. We are working for it to be validated and upheld as any We are working for it to be validated and upheld as any other art form. other art form. Christine: I like that word, Christine: I like that word, invisibilized. invisibilized. That's great. That's great. Christine: I had Christine: I had questions. questions. You answered most of them. You answered most of them. Where is Tiffany? Where is Tiffany? How are we on time, Tiffany? How are we on time, Tiffany? >> in good shape. >> in good shape. I know that Barak was interested in the room. I know that Barak was interested in the room. Christine: That's why I am asking. Christine: That's why I am asking. I have one more question for we open it up to the room for I have one more question for we open it up to the room for questions -- what other companies have you had experience working with other questions -- what other companies have you had experience working with other than 3Arts? than 3Arts? Barak: other companies? Barak: other companies? Christine: other companies that Christine: other companies that might want to follow the 3Arts model? might want to follow the 3Arts model? Barak: OK. Barak: OK. Christine: From your own personal experience moving through, navigating through that? Christine: From your own personal experience moving through, navigating through that? Barak: All right. So, first, I came up with the Barak: All right. So, first, I came up with the notion of this formula, notion of this formula, because because there is this formula, this there is this formula, this model, and I had a life model, and I had a life challenge with math. challenge with math. So I thought, I am going to So I thought, I am going to create a mathematical equation, create a mathematical equation, actually, to challenge myself. I came up with a formula that actually, to challenge myself. I came up with a formula that was one by one like 1 x 1 x 1 x was one by one like 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 to infinity. 1 to infinity. Every time you choose one Every time you choose one individual exponentially, it individual exponentially, it will grow, but each time the two interacted -- I know this is challenged, but this is the idea will grow, but each time the two interacted -- I know this is challenged, but this is the idea -- what I believe is they chose -- what I believe is they chose every individual every time and every individual every time and it grows collectively. it grows collectively. So, each time, each artist -- So, each time, each artist -- and I say this for everyone -- and I say this for everyone -- it each time, each artist is one. it each time, each artist is one. You choose, you engage with that individual, cultivate the You choose, you engage with that individual, cultivate the relationship, you go to the next relationship, you go to the next artist. artist. You have built that energy, but You have built that energy, but the individual artist may have something distinct. the individual artist may have something distinct. So choose, 1 x 1 x 1 and continue into infinity. While we think of it as So choose, 1 x 1 x 1 and continue into infinity. While we think of it as individualized things, individualized things, collectively it becomes collectively it becomes exponentially an amazing network of opportunity and never will exponentially an amazing network of opportunity and never will grow from there. That is my easy and there. grow from there. That is my easy and there. -- that is my easy answer there. -- that is my easy answer there. Christine: That is a fantastic answer. Christine: That is a fantastic answer. That is a perfect segue into what I wanted to finish up with That is a perfect segue into what I wanted to finish up with you, is saying, one of the you, is saying, one of the things Esther and I talked about things Esther and I talked about -- Esther, why she thinks 3Arts -- Esther, why she thinks 3Arts has been successful so far in their efforts? has been successful so far in their efforts? And she said that Kerry said to And she said that Kerry said to her, the reason 3Arts has been her, the reason 3Arts has been successful is Esther listen to successful is Esther listen to her and then she took action. her and then she took action. So, it does follow Bar ak's So, it does follow Bar ak's principle of the 12121 does you and Kerry found each other and principle of the 12121 does you and Kerry found each other and together you created this thing and -- together you created this thing and -- Esther: Yeah, I don't think I Esther: Yeah, I don't think I can add to the one by one by one can add to the one by one by one , because I really love that. , because I really love that. But, yeah, I wish it were something more complex. I wish I had a more complicated But, yeah, I wish it were something more complex. I wish I had a more complicated answer, a kind of jazzy answer answer, a kind of jazzy answer for you, but really in our experience, we have a philosophy for you, but really in our experience, we have a philosophy at 3Arts that at 3Arts that , you know, everything we build is based on , you know, everything we build is based on listening to artists and what they need and weighing that in the balance with our resources listening to artists and what they need and weighing that in the balance with our resources and capacity. and capacity. And we try and stretch ourselves And we try and stretch ourselves really as far as we can to really as far as we can to support individual artists individually. You know? support individual artists individually. You know? Our office is always open. Our office is always open. We give feedback sessions to any We give feedback sessions to any artist nominated for an award artist nominated for an award that did not get it. that did not get it. Those are one-on-one sessions. Those are one-on-one sessions. We have one-on-one financial award shows. We have mentorship, coaching, We have one-on-one financial award shows. We have mentorship, coaching, and Cetera -- coaching etc. and Cetera -- coaching etc. I don't know. It may be a chicken and egg thing. I don't know. It may be a chicken and egg thing. Barak's style, my style, Barak's style, my style, organizational style, or if the organizational style, or if the two things are conjoined -- but I think everything is built well. two things are conjoined -- but I think everything is built well. Not from the top down, not from the numbers down, but you build Not from the top down, not from the numbers down, but you build it, learning each step of the it, learning each step of the way. way. Barak: I want to add something that Esther shared with me that Barak: I want to add something that Esther shared with me that I thought was really important I thought was really important between this notion of listening between this notion of listening to action -- the responsiveness. to action -- the responsiveness. You mentioned that. You mentioned that. I listen to that about two years I listen to that about two years ago, responsiveness ago, responsiveness , how to you , how to you respond to what is communicated to you? respond to what is communicated to you? How do you let the artist to How do you let the artist to know you have responded? In the interim time of being know you have responded? In the interim time of being able to act, we cannot act all of the time. able to act, we cannot act all of the time. We can try to make those things happen and manifest, but in the We can try to make those things happen and manifest, but in the time between the listening and time between the listening and responding to let them know we have listened and moving them responding to let them know we have listened and moving them toward the act or the action and toward the act or the action and to not leave any opportunity for to not leave any opportunity for gaps that do not carry that. gaps that do not carry that. We have to look at the rigor of We have to look at the rigor of communication in this regard. communication in this regard. We have to think that simple is We have to think that simple is actually so important moving it actually so important moving it forward. forward. We can all draw into that. We can all draw into that. To not take for granted, to To not take for granted, to not take into some process something not take into some process something that we thought was so small, to move that forward. that we thought was so small, to move that forward. When Esther brought responsiveness, it is being in When Esther brought responsiveness, it is being in tune with that and understanding that that has to move in its own tune with that and understanding that that has to move in its own time in its own way, and so we continue to do that. time in its own way, and so we continue to do that. Esther: I was just thinking to Esther: I was just thinking to add to that, I think, is one ability. add to that, I think, is one ability. A willingness to be vulnerable A willingness to be vulnerable and to say, gee, I don't know. What do you think? and to say, gee, I don't know. What do you think? To just be in it. To just be in it. It is not easy, especially when, It is not easy, especially when, especially those of us in the especially those of us in the nonprofit world, have so much. nonprofit world, have so much. But I think that gets us on the pathway where we want to go. But I think that gets us on the pathway where we want to go. Christine: That's great. Christine: That's great. With that, I think we will open it up to anyone who has any questions. With that, I think we will open it up to anyone who has any questions. >> so, I'm -- when you are mentioning the process of >> so, I'm -- when you are mentioning the process of feedback and one-on-one feedback, that is so extraordinary to me, feedback and one-on-one feedback, that is so extraordinary to me, particularly when it comes to particularly when it comes to artists with disabilities. artists with disabilities. Sometimes people do not want to Sometimes people do not want to give feedback because they are afraid of hurting feelings, or give feedback because they are afraid of hurting feelings, or you know -- or they don't know you know -- or they don't know how. how. So, I'm just curious, either So, I'm just curious, either from the perspective of giving from the perspective of giving feedback or, Barak , your feedback or, Barak , your experience of who you trust to experience of who you trust to give you feedback, how you seek give you feedback, how you seek feedback on your work, just a feedback on your work, just a little bit about feedback? little bit about feedback? Esther: I will go quickly. Esther: I will go quickly. I think yours will be more interesting than mine. It is unusual. I think yours will be more interesting than mine. It is unusual. And it's unusual in the world of And it's unusual in the world of our awards programs and our awards programs and significant grants for significant grants for individual artists. More often than not you get a individual artists. More often than not you get a letter in the mail that says letter in the mail that says sorry, Charlie or sorry, Charlie or congratulations, Charlie. congratulations, Charlie. We added this line -- I don't remember anymore, five years ago We added this line -- I don't remember anymore, five years ago -- that said at the bottom, if you want to meet with us, call. -- that said at the bottom, if you want to meet with us, call. We have to meet before our awards program. We just picked our newest We have to meet before our awards program. We just picked our newest awardees. awardees. By the end of this year, you can By the end of this year, you can no longer have a feedback no longer have a feedback session because the cycle starts session because the cycle starts up again and we do not want a conflict for people who may be reapplying, right? up again and we do not want a conflict for people who may be reapplying, right? We have these one-on-one sessions. We have these one-on-one sessions. We have about 30 a year. I think that's a third of all We have about 30 a year. I think that's a third of all applicants seeking feedback. applicants seeking feedback. They begin the same way. We will share with you anything They begin the same way. We will share with you anything the judges -- and you remember the judges -- and you remember this -- asked us to share with you, particularly observations this -- asked us to share with you, particularly observations about your application. But we are also going to share about your application. But we are also going to share with you our opinion as the with you our opinion as the facilitator of this program what facilitator of this program what might have strengthened this application. might have strengthened this application. This is where Barak comes in, because rarely -- we don't talk This is where Barak comes in, because rarely -- we don't talk about the so-called quality of the work. about the so-called quality of the work. We have a very firm policy that we don't tell our jury panels, We have a very firm policy that we don't tell our jury panels, you know, quality is based on these seven things. you know, quality is based on these seven things. Quality in our mind is completely subjective. Quality in our mind is completely subjective. And to try and rank it brings to And to try and rank it brings to bear whose quality, right? bear whose quality, right? Who is being the judge here? We don't do that. Who is being the judge here? We don't do that. But what we do do, gee, you But what we do do, gee, you explained how you make your art, explained how you make your art, but you never explained why. but you never explained why. That's a very common error. That's a very common error. We ask you to explain in about three questions on the We ask you to explain in about three questions on the application, we ask you to application, we ask you to explain your full self, and you only said you are a visual explain your full self, and you only said you are a visual artist with X artist with X Gallery, so we do Gallery, so we do not have a good sense of you. When we asked you to talk about not have a good sense of you. When we asked you to talk about what you dream about doing in the future, you did not take us all the way home. what you dream about doing in the future, you did not take us all the way home. On your application -- we On your application -- we designed it ourselves. designed it ourselves. It is an online portal. It is an online portal. We have notes for artist's. We have notes for artist's. The first note as, pretend you The first note as, pretend you are in the room with the judges are in the room with the judges right now and you are given five right now and you are given five minutes. What do they need to know. minutes. What do they need to know. Feedback session takes about an Feedback session takes about an hour and a half. It's one-on-one. It is closed door. hour and a half. It's one-on-one. It is closed door. There have been artist's our There have been artist's our offices who have been nominated, offices who have been nominated, you know, five times in a row who are very frustrated. you know, five times in a row who are very frustrated. We explained we don't pick the artists. We explained we don't pick the artists. The judges change every year. The judges change every year. Therefore, never Pass up an Therefore, never Pass up an opportunity to apply. opportunity to apply. Sometimes we shall the other grant programs and help them Sometimes we shall the other grant programs and help them find a way to support their art. find a way to support their art. Those are them -- that is a cursory view of what we do. Those are them -- that is a cursory view of what we do. But it is a real one-on-one. But it is a real one-on-one. When you wrote this sentence, I'm trying to understand what you mean. When you wrote this sentence, I'm trying to understand what you mean. If you are leaving questions on If you are leaving questions on the table with me, I imagine you the table with me, I imagine you are leaving questions on the table with the jury panel. are leaving questions on the table with the jury panel. Remember when you write Remember when you write something to ask yourself, would something to ask yourself, would anybody understand it? anybody understand it? We don't care about grammar. We don't care about grammar. We don't care about misspellings . We don't care about misspellings . We don't care about formatting. We don't care about formatting. We take that off the table with the jury panel. We take that off the table with the jury panel. We don't talk about that stuff We don't talk about that stuff . . Does that help? Does that help? Barak: Thank you for not Barak: Thank you for not worrying about grammar and that. worrying about grammar and that. Those become barriers all the Those become barriers all the time. time. Sometimes they get in the way of Sometimes they get in the way of the artist trying to relay and the artist trying to relay and share the essence. share the essence. They cannot fit the format. They cannot fit the format. It is another box. It is another box within a box. It is another box. It is another box within a box. I appreciate it. I did not know that. I appreciate it. I did not know that. Wow. Wow. I did not know that. I did not know that. Do you Do you understand I sometimes spend time and ours making sure understand I sometimes spend time and ours making sure it is properly articulated? it is properly articulated? Thank you. Thank you. . . I want to say thank you. I want to say thank you. I also want to acknowledge that I also want to acknowledge that it feels like in my experience it feels like in my experience of making and performing art and making grants, how rare it is in of making and performing art and making grants, how rare it is in -- -- how rare it is to have an organization give that kind -- -- how rare it is to have an organization give that kind of feedback, to spend an hour and a half with anyone that wants to. of feedback, to spend an hour and a half with anyone that wants to. It gives opportunities to It gives opportunities to understand the content in the context in which you are making understand the content in the context in which you are making art and articulating that is a art and articulating that is a bridge to possibly align and bridge to possibly align and continue to think and progress their understanding. continue to think and progress their understanding. Their understanding of their own work and form and how they communicate it. Their understanding of their own work and form and how they communicate it. I thank you for that. I thank you for that. There was another talk about the There was another talk about the internal process of artist feedback. internal process of artist feedback. I began a process. I began a process. I need to acknowledge Liz I need to acknowledge Liz Lehrman for the critical response. Lehrman for the critical response. Around the late 1990's, I began Around the late 1990's, I began to utilize the critical response. to utilize the critical response. I have been in ongoing I have been in ongoing conversation since 1996 about conversation since 1996 about using that. using that. I use it all the time. I use it all the time. And have curated dialogues where And have curated dialogues where I facilitate using the critical response. I facilitate using the critical response. Are you all familiar with Are you all familiar with critical response? critical response? If you are not, please look it If you are not, please look it up online through Liz because I don't know that I can articulate up online through Liz because I don't know that I can articulate to you all of the nuances. to you all of the nuances. It is for me a leading practice It is for me a leading practice in being able to speak to work in being able to speak to work that is artist-centered, not that is artist-centered, not audience-centered. audience-centered. That is the challenge. That is the challenge. I have been I have been doing it since 1996. doing it since 1996. I also engage open space technology, which is another I also engage open space technology, which is another format. format. If you're not familiar with If you're not familiar with that, please look up open space technology. that, please look up open space technology. I utilize both methodologies in I utilize both methodologies in my practice to gain information from the audience and help my practice to gain information from the audience and help others facilitate their own others facilitate their own interests and investment in interests and investment in getting feedback. getting feedback. This for me was the first This for me was the first opportunity for me to engage opportunity for me to engage very clearly with 3Arts when I very clearly with 3Arts when I was asked to facilitate a critical response, my own was asked to facilitate a critical response, my own methodology approach, with a methodology approach, with a group of artists that received support through 3Arts. group of artists that received support through 3Arts. That was an opportunity within That was an opportunity within the interior of professional the interior of professional development, for them to be able to articulate that. development, for them to be able to articulate that. It was really interesting. It was really interesting. I am interested in the ongoing I am interested in the ongoing notion of critical discourse which is so essential. notion of critical discourse which is so essential. You brought up the notion of You brought up the notion of what happens when you add an what happens when you add an identifier and people do not want to approach that. identifier and people do not want to approach that. I cannot talk about it because I cannot talk about it because this person is disabled. this person is disabled. Really, honestly, if you cannot Really, honestly, if you cannot do that, that is OK. do that, that is OK. You don't have to. You don't have to. But if you're interested, I have used critical response to help But if you're interested, I have used critical response to help support the artist in that support the artist in that moment. moment. The artist gets the opportunity The artist gets the opportunity to ask questions of the audience that they want feedback for. to ask questions of the audience that they want feedback for. They get to -- oftentimes, the audience has to ask if they want an opinion. They get to -- oftentimes, the audience has to ask if they want an opinion. The artist says I don't want your opinion. The artist says I don't want your opinion. They get autonomy to the artist. They get autonomy to the artist. I think those are ways to approach that. I think those are ways to approach that. I'm interested in continuing I'm interested in continuing with 3Arts particularly on how to utilize that as an with 3Arts particularly on how to utilize that as an opportunity for artists to get opportunity for artists to get feedback and begin to deal with feedback and begin to deal with that bridge because that can that bridge because that can also become a barrier to them if you continue to feel like you also become a barrier to them if you continue to feel like you are in your own bubble and no are in your own bubble and no one wants -- know when that you one wants -- know when that you trust is able to give you trust is able to give you feedback. feedback. How do you grow? How do you grow? Google analysis and discourse -- critical analysis and discourse shapes our world. Google analysis and discourse -- critical analysis and discourse shapes our world. How can we support artists that How can we support artists that live in these identities and want to speak deeply to identities? live in these identities and want to speak deeply to identities? How can we support them and How can we support them and continuing to have conversations continuing to have conversations that supports their artistry through this critical lens. that supports their artistry through this critical lens. >> I had a question. >> I had a question. You mentioned earlier about You mentioned earlier about politely declining using politely declining using Steppenwolf's second studio theater. Steppenwolf's second studio theater. I wanted to ask more generally I wanted to ask more generally along those lines how as along those lines how as facilitators for institutions facilitators for institutions but also for artists, how to but also for artists, how to strategically navigate the strategically navigate the divide between disability community, culture, and arts, divide between disability community, culture, and arts, and all the funding and and all the funding and networking that goes around that to support artists and project networking that goes around that to support artists and project them out into the world to share them out into the world to share their vision and work with as their vision and work with as diverse an audience as possible. diverse an audience as possible. And how as an artist to then And how as an artist to then parlay some of that momentum parlay some of that momentum into a sort of parallel world of institutions that support into a sort of parallel world of institutions that support artists, that try to expose them artists, that try to expose them to audiences, but they are doing to audiences, but they are doing it on the mainstream without a it on the mainstream without a demarcation of it is this type demarcation of it is this type of artist that we are only of artist that we are only funding. funding. I think a good, overt example of I think a good, overt example of that is to participate in a that is to participate in a festival like Florida State. festival like Florida State. They had this big dance Festival They had this big dance Festival with major names. with major names. All the big names do it. All the big names do it. Then there is a secondary -- and Then there is a secondary -- and we are going to do a disabled festival as part of it. we are going to do a disabled festival as part of it. I wonder what is the strategy I wonder what is the strategy and how do you handle making a and how do you handle making a living as an artist and deciding living as an artist and deciding I am not doing the secondary I am not doing the secondary theater versus I need the theater versus I need the income income , so I am going to do it even though I don't feel it is appropriate. , so I am going to do it even though I don't feel it is appropriate. I am curious what your thoughts I am curious what your thoughts are on that divide and having are on that divide and having your foot in two places and how to navigate that. your foot in two places and how to navigate that. Barak: Now you're wanting me to speak politically. Barak: Now you're wanting me to speak politically. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] Barak: Which is not integrated Barak: Which is not integrated into my whole being, so I first into my whole being, so I first want to recognize that even want to recognize that even within the context of this conversation I am opening myself within the context of this conversation I am opening myself up to that conversation. up to that conversation. Not every artist should be Not every artist should be mandated to have to speak about mandated to have to speak about things politically or otherwise unless they want to speak about things politically or otherwise unless they want to speak about it. it. I say this because I think I say this because I think oftentimes I may be the first or oftentimes I may be the first or one of the first few to be the one of the first few to be the bridge, the gatekeeper to the bridge, the gatekeeper to the influx and flow of artists in influx and flow of artists in any identifiers. any identifiers. Oftentimes, I am the test. Oftentimes, I am the test. I am the experiment. I am the experiment. I am the what happens if we fail, what happens if we get it right. I am the what happens if we fail, what happens if we get it right. I recognize if you continue to I recognize if you continue to put artists through that, I hope put artists through that, I hope you acknowledge the fact you are putting them through that. you acknowledge the fact you are putting them through that. If you are not, you are helping If you are not, you are helping to not allow them to sustain their practice. to not allow them to sustain their practice. You're not allowing them to be You're not allowing them to be the artist they are designed to be. the artist they are designed to be. I recognize in this moment that I recognize in this moment that I am making myself honorable to I am making myself honorable to that because I choose -- making myself honorable to that because I choose to. that because I choose -- making myself honorable to that because I choose to. Not because I am mandated two. Not because I am mandated two. We should continue to allow for an artist to be first and We should continue to allow for an artist to be first and foremost in the conversation and ask them a question. foremost in the conversation and ask them a question. I have to say that. I have to say that. I say that to also recognize the artist that was a great I say that to also recognize the artist that was a great opportunity for them to be on a Steppenwolf stage of any kind. opportunity for them to be on a Steppenwolf stage of any kind. It is great. I do not want to belittle that. It is great. I do not want to belittle that. I want to recognize the fact I want to recognize the fact there are demarcations all the there are demarcations all the time. time. Constantly it is placed in a different box. Constantly it is placed in a different box. Not a box I chose to be in but a Not a box I chose to be in but a box placed to support a funding box placed to support a funding situation, in order to create a situation, in order to create a furniture -- further furniture -- further marginalization of me in that moment. marginalization of me in that moment. I don't need to be further marginalized. I don't need to be further marginalized. I don't need to be categorized beyond my own self-identification. I don't need to be categorized beyond my own self-identification. When we put those in a separate When we put those in a separate category, we marginalize them. category, we marginalize them. Have you asked them if they want to be there. Have you asked them if they want to be there. That asking is precarious. That asking is precarious. What artist does not want to get that support? What artist does not want to get that support? What artist does not want to have that platform? What artist does not want to have that platform? It is quite precarious. It is quite precarious. It is up to those making It is up to those making decisions because it is decisions because it is oftentimes not the artist oftentimes not the artist present. present. Make the decision to begin to ask yourself and rigorously Make the decision to begin to ask yourself and rigorously address, are you further address, are you further marginalizing them in the act of supporting them? marginalizing them in the act of supporting them? If you can begin to ask that If you can begin to ask that question, I think you are question, I think you are beginning to awake to beginning to awake to consciousness that allows us to consciousness that allows us to look at and possibly dismantle look at and possibly dismantle that very model that is that very model that is marginalizing them. marginalizing them. That is why I was political about Steppenwolf. That is why I was political about Steppenwolf. I think it is a great opportunity but I don't want to be a further demarcation. I think it is a great opportunity but I don't want to be a further demarcation. It is the same for other It is the same for other theaters and entities when they do the specialized things. theaters and entities when they do the specialized things. It is clear for me, are they It is clear for me, are they asking the artist, is the first voice perspective present? asking the artist, is the first voice perspective present? Not just at the table to be Not just at the table to be reinterpreted and not make a decision. reinterpreted and not make a decision. But are they all the way through But are they all the way through a part of the experience? a part of the experience? Are they helping to facilitate Are they helping to facilitate the manifestation, the the manifestation, the limitation, the administration, limitation, the administration, and the actualization of that and the actualization of that program? program? Christine: We have a question here. Christine: We have a question here. >> Arts and disability of Ireland. >> Arts and disability of Ireland. I was intrigued as I was I was intrigued as I was listening to you in the 3Arts listening to you in the 3Arts description of your residencies. description of your residencies. What really struck me was the What really struck me was the parallels between your residencies and our own. parallels between your residencies and our own. I think the one thing that I think the one thing that struck me was the issues you had struck me was the issues you had around actual access to the around actual access to the international residencies you had for other artists. international residencies you had for other artists. In Ireland, we have set up In Ireland, we have set up residencies. residencies. There are issues we have faced as have other international There are issues we have faced as have other international colleagues who work with artists with disabilities. colleagues who work with artists with disabilities. I suppose all I would say is I suppose all I would say is there are people like us out there are people like us out there who have had the same issues. there who have had the same issues. In other words, what I am saying is I think it is possible to In other words, what I am saying is I think it is possible to have international residencies have international residencies and maybe link in with people and maybe link in with people like ourselves and others like ourselves and others because the issues you had because the issues you had around access, and you have created a very successful around access, and you have created a very successful program in Chicago, we have had program in Chicago, we have had to deal with those issues in our to deal with those issues in our visual arts studio with the fire visual arts studio with the fire station artist studios in Dublin. station artist studios in Dublin. That would be only one example. That would be only one example. I would encourage you at some I would encourage you at some point to relook at the point to relook at the international using what you international using what you have learned from having to have learned from having to refocus on Chicago for those refocus on Chicago for those residencies to make them residencies to make them accessible. accessible. Esther: Thank you. I will be looking at Dublin. Esther: Thank you. I will be looking at Dublin. I want to say we kept all of our other residency programs their I want to say we kept all of our other residency programs their open to other artists. open to other artists. Some of you might know the Some of you might know the Jerome foundation in Minnesota. Jerome foundation in Minnesota. They have They have a foundation on the Mediterranean sea that is the residency program. a foundation on the Mediterranean sea that is the residency program. It is in a state from Jerome It is in a state from Jerome Hill -- it is an estate from Jerome Hill. Hill -- it is an estate from Jerome Hill. They are aiming to make it very accessible. They are aiming to make it very accessible. The truth is, the interior is. The truth is, the interior is. But if you want to go to the beach, you are dealing with But if you want to go to the beach, you are dealing with seriously rocky terrain to give an example. seriously rocky terrain to give an example. A mandate for 3Arts is we want A mandate for 3Arts is we want to pick our residencies based on the most accessible once we can to pick our residencies based on the most accessible once we can find and that welcome artists of find and that welcome artists of all the disciplines we support. all the disciplines we support. It is hard to find residencies that match both criteria. It is hard to find residencies that match both criteria. We stayed because they are We stayed because they are undergoing a plan right now to undergoing a plan right now to renovate that property and make renovate that property and make it fully accessible. it fully accessible. We are watching it. We are watching it. We all hope to have a site visit We all hope to have a site visit there to see if they have done it. there to see if they have done it. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. The residency Fellowship program The residency Fellowship program is one we are always too eager is one we are always too eager -- always eager to expand upon. -- always eager to expand upon. Christine: This has been a fantastic conversation. Christine: This has been a fantastic conversation. I want to take a moment to I want to take a moment to acknowledge the rock -- barak , especially your choice to open up your has been a real gift. acknowledge the rock -- barak , especially your choice to open up your has been a real gift. If there is anything else you want to share, please take a moment. If there is anything else you want to share, please take a moment. Barak: Is there anything else I Barak: Is there anything else I want to share? want to share? I want to acknowledge the fact I want to acknowledge the fact that I appreciate that lead that I appreciate that lead made H was to integrate made H was to integrate performance into the work. That was a satisfying opportunity. performance into the work. That was a satisfying opportunity. I'm glad it does because we I'm glad it does because we place them -- the conversation shifts and there are other opportunities. place them -- the conversation shifts and there are other opportunities. I want to acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge that. I also want to acknowledge in my I also want to acknowledge in my own speaking about disability to own speaking about disability to recognize it is what is read as recognize it is what is read as disabled and also what is invisible. disabled and also what is invisible. And to recognize within my own And to recognize within my own that we make no assumptions when an artist says they have a that we make no assumptions when an artist says they have a disability what that is. disability what that is. It becomes a bit of a guessing It becomes a bit of a guessing game I know. game I know. Sometimes the most brilliant Sometimes the most brilliant folk I know deeply engaged in folk I know deeply engaged in the artform and supporting arts the artform and supporting arts have asked me questions they have asked me questions they would not ask of me if I removed would not ask of me if I removed disability and put blackness. disability and put blackness. How long have you been black? How long have you been black? >> [LAUGHTER] >> [LAUGHTER] Barak: Can you talk about your Barak: Can you talk about your blackness or gender? blackness or gender? I say that not to say we cannot I say that not to say we cannot be vulnerable and transparent in be vulnerable and transparent in our experiences. our experiences. But the notion of note But the notion of note assumptions -- no assumptions, the notion of asking the assumptions -- no assumptions, the notion of asking the questions and supporting an questions and supporting an environment that allows for that environment that allows for that to happen is what I am looking for. to happen is what I am looking for. There are multiple people who There are multiple people who have visible and invisible have visible and invisible disabilities that I want to also disabilities that I want to also support and firm them. support and firm them. The last thing is there has been The last thing is there has been a challenge. a challenge. One of the things that happened One of the things that happened is it can take so much effort. is it can take so much effort. Sometimes more effort to get Sometimes more effort to get work on the stage than to work on the stage than to actually do the work. actually do the work. That means for me the rigor of That means for me the rigor of the production process that the production process that happens sometimes as an artist happens sometimes as an artist that does not just have a physical disability but the that does not just have a physical disability but the mental one, the mental dexterity mental one, the mental dexterity that is asked, the rigor of that is asked, the rigor of trying to make sure even a tech -- trying to make sure even a tech -- Esther: That is a very good point. Esther: That is a very good point. Barak: We should never take for Barak: We should never take for granted or assume the notion that what it takes to get the 59 granted or assume the notion that what it takes to get the 59 e-mails to the e-mails to the tech, if all tech, if all those things come through the those things come through the lens of disability or lens of disability or opportunity for that shifts. opportunity for that shifts. I understand the physical costs I understand the physical costs to my body every time I have to to my body every time I have to enter into that place and moment. enter into that place and moment. This is where I asked for nuance and working towards nuance. This is where I asked for nuance and working towards nuance. We begin to think every step of We begin to think every step of the way, how can we plan and support? the way, how can we plan and support? What questions do we need to ask? What questions do we need to ask? What ways can we map the space? What ways can we map the space? Do I know where the bathroom is? Do I know where the bathroom is? Do I know what level it is on? Do I know what level it is on? That is what I do every time I That is what I do every time I walk into a space. walk into a space. I'm constantly, it is going to I'm constantly, it is going to take me how many spoons I have take me how many spoons I have left today. left today. You all know the spoon theory. Look it up. You all know the spoon theory. Look it up. Begin to understand that. Don't take anything for granted. Begin to understand that. Don't take anything for granted. Make those things visible. Make those things visible. How vulnerable can we both be and how can we deepen the relationship? How vulnerable can we both be and how can we deepen the relationship? That is what I am in support of, That is what I am in support of, the beauty and intimacy of cultivating relationships. the beauty and intimacy of cultivating relationships. Esther: I would add to that and say understand that for a lot of Esther: I would add to that and say understand that for a lot of people with disabilities that people with disabilities that process begins the moment we process begins the moment we wake up in the morning. wake up in the morning. It does not just happen when we It does not just happen when we are entering your spaces. are entering your spaces. It happens It happens when we are navigating through our living spaces. when we are navigating through our living spaces. It happens when we are on our way to your spaces. It happens when we are on our way to your spaces. Often by the time we get to the rehearsal space, there have been Often by the time we get to the rehearsal space, there have been 15 things that have happened 15 things that have happened that have been in danger of that have been in danger of preventing us from getting to the rehearsal space. preventing us from getting to the rehearsal space. Just be mindful of the fact that Just be mindful of the fact that all of those things contribute all of those things contribute to how many spoons we have left during the day. [LAUGHTER] to how many spoons we have left during the day. [LAUGHTER] Christine: Thank you guys so Christine: Thank you guys so much. much. Esther: Thank you. Esther: Thank you. Barak: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Barak: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Christine: 15 minutes. Christine: 15 minutes. And I would love to pick up some And I would love to pick up some post-it notes. post-it notes. >> Hello, hello to check, check. >> Hello, hello to check, check. >> Check. >> Check. >> I think we are going to start >> I think we are going to start gathering back for final interview. gathering back for final interview. Sorry, guys. Sorry, guys. My name is David Harrell. My name is David Harrell. I am an actor as well as the disability and programming associate for inclusion in the I am an actor as well as the disability and programming associate for inclusion in the arts in New York City. arts in New York City. I'm joined by Julie Baker and I'm joined by Julie Baker and Vanya from a local the other Vanya from a local the other company in Pittsburgh, Bricolage . company in Pittsburgh, Bricolage . We wanted to bring in a variety We wanted to bring in a variety of different theater companies that are working in an inclusive of different theater companies that are working in an inclusive way and talk about an experience way and talk about an experience each individual organization would have because there are a each individual organization would have because there are a variety of different challenges variety of different challenges that different size organizations will come into. that different size organizations will come into. I want to have Julie -- I want to have Julie -- Oh, it is Jackie. Oh, it is Jackie. >> It puts me at ease that he makes the first mistake, so I am thrilled. >> It puts me at ease that he makes the first mistake, so I am thrilled. David: Awesome. David: Awesome. In the break, I was going to the In the break, I was going to the bathroom and was like it is Jackie. Not Julie. bathroom and was like it is Jackie. Not Julie. And then I said it is Julie. And then I said it is Julie. I would like Jackie to talk us I would like Jackie to talk us through a little bit about through a little bit about Bricolage and who they are and Bricolage and who they are and talk a little bit about the type talk a little bit about the type of work they do which is immersive theater, which is a little bit different. of work they do which is immersive theater, which is a little bit different. For our audience here and on the For our audience here and on the Livestream, to get a better understanding of what type of theater they do. Livestream, to get a better understanding of what type of theater they do. >> Hello. >> Hello. I am the general manager at I am the general manager at Bricolage production company. Bricolage production company. Our office and main theater is down the street on liberty Avenue. Our office and main theater is down the street on liberty Avenue. We do a lot of work outside of our theater. We do a lot of work outside of our theater. We do site-specific pieces. We do site-specific pieces. We do work that puts the audience at the center of the narrative. We do work that puts the audience at the center of the narrative. That ranges across our programs. That ranges across our programs. We have become most recognized for our immersive work. We have become most recognized for our immersive work. Immersive theater , for anyone Immersive theater , for anyone who does not know, is a different kind of theater. who does not know, is a different kind of theater. Instead of creating an Instead of creating an environment on the stage and having watched a show with actor environment on the stage and having watched a show with actor s, we will create an s, we will create an environment and put the audience inside it with a role in the show. environment and put the audience inside it with a role in the show. The result is often cite-specific. The result is often cite-specific. It is often a moving piece. It is often a moving piece. There are usually varying There are usually varying degrees of audience agency where you get to have control and go degrees of audience agency where you get to have control and go where you want and look at the things you want to look at. where you want and look at the things you want to look at. David: Great. David: Great. Specifically for today's Specifically for today's discussion, we are going to lead into talking about a specific discussion, we are going to lead into talking about a specific performance, "Where is He re." performance, "Where is He re." I would like you to talk about I would like you to talk about the journey Bricolage had to get to that production. the journey Bricolage had to get to that production. It was sort of this journey of It was sort of this journey of lessons learned that led to the combination of that project. lessons learned that led to the combination of that project. If you could talk a little bit If you could talk a little bit about the journey getting there about the journey getting there and more specific about how that specific production came about. and more specific about how that specific production came about. >> We did our first large-scale >> We did our first large-scale immersive in 2012 called "Strat a." immersive in 2012 called "Strat a." We did not start working with We did not start working with artists with disabilities in a artists with disabilities in a meaningful way until 2014. meaningful way until 2014. At that time, the Pittsburgh cultural trust gave our artistic At that time, the Pittsburgh cultural trust gave our artistic director a visionary artist director a visionary artist award and asked him to create a award and asked him to create a piece to coincide with the three piece to coincide with the three Rivers are festival downtown. Rivers are festival downtown. The team got together and The team got together and started to explore the visual started to explore the visual arts Festival in the challenge arts Festival in the challenge and artist creates in looking at and artist creates in looking at a blank canvas. a blank canvas. From that discussion, it moved From that discussion, it moved on to the journey of the on to the journey of the attendee who is blind and the attendee who is blind and the assumptions a visual arts assumptions a visual arts Festival makes of the general audience member. Festival makes of the general audience member. That led to an interview with a That led to an interview with a woman who told us about her experience with blindness. woman who told us about her experience with blindness. She lost her sight throughout her life. She lost her sight throughout her life. She was not born blind. She was not born blind. It was born out of the artist It was born out of the artist interview. interview. She was cast as the lead in the show. She was cast as the lead in the show. We contrasted her role with someone else who was born blind. We contrasted her role with someone else who was born blind. That was in the context of the show. That was in the context of the show. You did not just get one narrative about blindness. You did not just get one narrative about blindness. We were invited in 2015 to take We were invited in 2015 to take it to La Jolla Playhouse. it to La Jolla Playhouse. We brought Ann with us to do her We brought Ann with us to do her role again. role again. We made some edits based on her We made some edits based on her feedback and recast the other feedback and recast the other role to be someone who was a role to be someone who was a local actor in California who was also born blind. local actor in California who was also born blind. We rewrote the role to be specific to him. We rewrote the role to be specific to him. That was our first two ventures That was our first two ventures working with artists with working with artists with disabilities at the core of the disabilities at the core of the creation and inviting them to be creation and inviting them to be on the creative team and tell us what to do. on the creative team and tell us what to do. In 2015, we also did a In 2015, we also did a large-scale immersive. large-scale immersive. It was, for us, I think stuck It was, for us, I think stuck out as a catalyst for us. out as a catalyst for us. Learning and failure and being intentional about this work. Learning and failure and being intentional about this work. It was a part bus, part walking It was a part bus, part walking tour that took place about 45 minutes away. tour that took place about 45 minutes away. I was caught between two worlds. I was caught between two worlds. I was told from an artistic perspective we could not book a I was told from an artistic perspective we could not book a charter bus for the show because charter bus for the show because a big, expensive charter bus going through a blighted a big, expensive charter bus going through a blighted neighborhood was not what we neighborhood was not what we were looking for. were looking for. I needed to find a school bus. I could not find a school bus I needed to find a school bus. I could not find a school bus that was 88 accessible. that was 88 accessible. We found ourselves in a We found ourselves in a situation where we created a situation where we created a show that was exclusive to a show that was exclusive to a group of people that came to our group of people that came to our shows all the time and found our space downtown to be perfectly shows all the time and found our space downtown to be perfectly acceptable and created something that by its nature was exclusive. acceptable and created something that by its nature was exclusive. It is the first time we started It is the first time we started asking the question of who we asking the question of who we are excluding when we do our shows. are excluding when we do our shows. We owned up to it and told We owned up to it and told everyone that unfortunately if everyone that unfortunately if you are in a wheelchair, he will not be able to come to the show. you are in a wheelchair, he will not be able to come to the show. Please call us with questions, Please call us with questions, thoughts, or feedback, and set out to be more intentional in the future. thoughts, or feedback, and set out to be more intentional in the future. It was a lesson that felt bad. It was a lesson that felt bad. In 2016, we were asked to create In 2016, we were asked to create a show for kids with autism a show for kids with autism spectrum disorders as part of the Pittsburgh children's theater Festival. spectrum disorders as part of the Pittsburgh children's theater Festival. We had a unique position because we are not a presenting company. We had a unique position because we are not a presenting company. We are a producing company and we create our own work. We are a producing company and we create our own work. We were doing a lot of learning We were doing a lot of learning about best practices around creating sensory-friendly shows. about best practices around creating sensory-friendly shows. They all assumed, because they They all assumed, because they need to, that the show the way need to, that the show the way it has been built is exclusive and we need to add on things to it has been built is exclusive and we need to add on things to make it accommodating like a make it accommodating like a safe room or visual or social safe room or visual or social guide to prep people on the way. guide to prep people on the way. Did them fidgets, raze the house lights. Did them fidgets, raze the house lights. We thought what if we can make it ourselves. We thought what if we can make it ourselves. We tried to employ the concept We tried to employ the concept of universal design in theater of universal design in theater making and make a piece that the making and make a piece that the way it is his belt is already way it is his belt is already inclusive so we do not need to make it change when someone with autism comes to the show. inclusive so we do not need to make it change when someone with autism comes to the show. It is for them. It is for them. Because it is designed with them Because it is designed with them in mind , maybe it would be in mind , maybe it would be welcoming to everybody. welcoming to everybody. Since we knew nothing about any Since we knew nothing about any of that, and we did not have the of that, and we did not have the resources we need, or you learned from previous mistakes resources we need, or you learned from previous mistakes and brought people on board to tell us what to do. and brought people on board to tell us what to do. That was arts for autism, That was arts for autism, firefly, Reveca who also presented this week. firefly, Reveca who also presented this week. We hired an actor who had autism who self identified as an We hired an actor who had autism who self identified as an advocate and was not afraid to advocate and was not afraid to tell us how she felt. She became part of the creative team. tell us how she felt. She became part of the creative team. We set out over six months to We set out over six months to have a workshop we where we have a workshop we where we trained and learned about autism trained and learned about autism spectrum disorders in different spectrum disorders in different ways it manifests in how to reach kids through the arts. ways it manifests in how to reach kids through the arts. Then we would go away and write a little bit. Then we would go away and write a little bit. We would workshop s'more and go away and write a little bit. We would workshop s'more and go away and write a little bit. The end result was an enchanted The end result was an enchanted forest they came to life or about two hours every day that forest they came to life or about two hours every day that kids could come to in shifts. kids could come to in shifts. I would see if they were able to wait or not. I would see if they were able to wait or not. I would get them in a soonest they would explore at their I would get them in a soonest they would explore at their leisure and leave when they wanted to. leisure and leave when they wanted to. It was built intentionally so it It was built intentionally so it was rewarding when you said yes was rewarding when you said yes to each barrier. to each barrier. It ranged from starting at the highest light level going down It ranged from starting at the highest light level going down to the lowest light level. to the lowest light level. Every time you accepted the challenge of moving to the next Every time you accepted the challenge of moving to the next room, it was calmer. room, it was calmer. The designers made it in a way you could control your level of engagement. The designers made it in a way you could control your level of engagement. The forest was alive. The forest was alive. There were certain sounds in certain places. There were certain sounds in certain places. We had a log in the middle of We had a log in the middle of the forest. the forest. There was a sight-specific area There was a sight-specific area where sound was imitating. where sound was imitating. If you liked it, you could get closer. If you liked it, you could get closer. If you did not, there were many places you can go. If you did not, there were many places you can go. The goal was not to be all things to all people that have The goal was not to be all things to all people that have people who come in the door and people who come in the door and find a pocket of the forest that find a pocket of the forest that made them feel comfortable with the overarching goal of having made them feel comfortable with the overarching goal of having kids with autism spectrum disorders playing together in the forest. kids with autism spectrum disorders playing together in the forest. David: very cool. David: very cool. Can you speak about your Can you speak about your experience and involvement experience and involvement consulting as well as performing in this? consulting as well as performing in this? >> Sure. >> Sure. Well, I suppose an important Well, I suppose an important part of this to know is this was my first time being in part of this to know is this was my first time being in a project -- professional a project -- professional production at all. That was an interesting experience, to be part of the production at all. That was an interesting experience, to be part of the development as well my first development as well my first time ever being in a professional production. time ever being in a professional production. I was not sure what to expect I was not sure what to expect when I came in because this was completely new to me. when I came in because this was completely new to me. I had been a part of inclusion I had been a part of inclusion don't speak for which is where don't speak for which is where -- I had been part of inclusion -- I had been part of inclusion films which is where Bricolage found me. films which is where Bricolage found me. They had seen some of my work They had seen some of my work with the inclusion films summer with the inclusion films summer camps. camps. But I had never been in an But I had never been in an actual professional production actual professional production with other neural typical people. with other neural typical people. It was odd coming in because I It was odd coming in because I was not sure whether -- where was not sure whether -- where the boundaries were. the boundaries were. I was not sure how far I could go in saying that will never I was not sure how far I could go in saying that will never work or here is what his word -- what will work instead. work or here is what his word -- what will work instead. As we got further into the As we got further into the writing and production, I became a lot more comfortable. writing and production, I became a lot more comfortable. They became more comfortable They became more comfortable approaching the and asking me approaching the and asking me the best they became more the best they became more comfortable -- they became more comfortable approaching me and comfortable -- they became more comfortable approaching me and asking me if this made me and asking me if this made me and comfortable. comfortable. It is important to remember I am It is important to remember I am autistic but I do not represent the entire artistic community. autistic but I do not represent the entire artistic community. That was a bit of a challenge That was a bit of a challenge for me because I am one small for me because I am one small part of this huge, diverse part of this huge, diverse community. community. And I am not even a particularly And I am not even a particularly average part of the community. average part of the community. I am not necessarily a person I am not necessarily a person who displays the typical traits who displays the typical traits of autism. of autism. I had to be very cognizant of I had to be very cognizant of thinking for example this does thinking for example this does not bother me, but what would not bother me, but what would buy three-year-old brother who buy three-year-old brother who is more severely autistic think about this? is more severely autistic think about this? This does bother me, but is that just like thing or would it be a This does bother me, but is that just like thing or would it be a common problem? common problem? It was a real balancing act going on. It was a real balancing act going on. I think in the end, I feel I was I think in the end, I feel I was very comfortable coming forward very comfortable coming forward with my thoughts and feelings. with my thoughts and feelings. And I think I probably, if And I think I probably, if anything, I would want to have spoken up more in the beginning. anything, I would want to have spoken up more in the beginning. Overall, I think I don't Overall, I think I don't regret regret any of the things I put forward. any of the things I put forward. David: We were talking about this earlier. David: We were talking about this earlier. It is finding that balance of It is finding that balance of when you are self-advocating and moving forward and also being when you are self-advocating and moving forward and also being welcomed by the artistic staff welcomed by the artistic staff and those questions being sought out to you. and those questions being sought out to you. In this experience, it was a In this experience, it was a little like I am filling this out. little like I am filling this out. As you got more comfortable because those questions were As you got more comfortable because those questions were asked and you felt this artistic asked and you felt this artistic staff was supportive that you staff was supportive that you could get more comfortable could get more comfortable voicing your opinion. voicing your opinion. I think that is an important thing overall. I think that is an important thing overall. Just having a welcoming environment. >> Yes. Just having a welcoming environment. >> Yes. I think part of it was I was not I think part of it was I was not sure where the lines, where the boundary of me as a performer sure where the lines, where the boundary of me as a performer ended and the boundary of me as ended and the boundary of me as helping to develop the show helping to develop the show began. began. David: Right. David: Right. >> As a performer, I have a responsibility to perform what is given to me. >> As a performer, I have a responsibility to perform what is given to me. But as a developer, I have a responsibility to help create But as a developer, I have a responsibility to help create that. that. That is also a really tricky That is also a really tricky balancing act to have. balancing act to have. David: Also a balancing act in David: Also a balancing act in the immersive theater. the immersive theater. It is not as traditional in its It is not as traditional in its own creation, so that is an own creation, so that is an added thing that happens in the added thing that happens in the nature and context of what you nature and context of what you guys are creating. guys are creating. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. I should specify that in I should specify that in addition to being an immersive addition to being an immersive theater piece, our process was devised. theater piece, our process was devised. We create it together. We did not have any concept. We create it together. We did not have any concept. We just had a goal for the show. We just had a goal for the show. We gathered a team we hoped would creatively contribute to We gathered a team we hoped would creatively contribute to that and then we would do different rehearsals and that and then we would do different rehearsals and exercise. exercise. Little seeds over time created Little seeds over time created the foundation for it. the foundation for it. It is interesting in immersive It is interesting in immersive theater and the devised passes, theater and the devised passes, there is a constant balancing there is a constant balancing act of where does my role as an act of where does my role as an actor into Jupiter begin and end. actor into Jupiter begin and end. As we get closer to opening, the As we get closer to opening, the ranks of authority become more clear. ranks of authority become more clear. There is a lot of space to contribute when it is just the seeds. There is a lot of space to contribute when it is just the seeds. As we get closer, we have to As we get closer, we have to start making decisions. start making decisions. There are only some things we can do that late in the game. There are only some things we can do that late in the game. It is certainly a balancing act for everybody. It is certainly a balancing act for everybody. David: In terms of the broad experience, you sort of touched on this. David: In terms of the broad experience, you sort of touched on this. I wonder if you could talk more I wonder if you could talk more about how actually the about how actually the performance was for you. performance was for you. Once you guys Once you guys opened and there opened and there was no longer the need to feel was no longer the need to feel like I am collaborating? like I am collaborating? Were you able to let go of that Were you able to let go of that idea you were constantly sort idea you were constantly sort of having to collaborate and relax into now I am a performer of having to collaborate and relax into now I am a performer in the show and will have this performance experience? in the show and will have this performance experience? >> Definitely there was some of >> Definitely there was some of that. that. When everything was more finalized, it became a lot When everything was more finalized, it became a lot easier to easier to relax into the role. relax into the role. Now my role is to help guide these audience members and connect with these audience Now my role is to help guide these audience members and connect with these audience members. members. That is what I am doing. That is what I am doing. At the same time with immersive theater and especially this piece, it is constant. At the same time with immersive theater and especially this piece, it is constant. Even once you have opened, you are constantly learning and Even once you have opened, you are constantly learning and changing things. changing things. Even after our opening day, we were still changing things the Even after our opening day, we were still changing things the next day and had to make next day and had to make adjustments to the show. adjustments to the show. Just because the audience is Just because the audience is such a huge part of this and also because this particular such a huge part of this and also because this particular audience has a lot of very audience has a lot of very unpredictable both good moments and bad moments. unpredictable both good moments and bad moments. It is a constant conversation between the performers and It is a constant conversation between the performers and audience. audience. There's constant adjustments that have to be made even while it is running. There's constant adjustments that have to be made even while it is running. David: Jackie, can you speak David: Jackie, can you speak more in terms of the theater's more in terms of the theater's experience with this show and in experience with this show and in other work that you have done that has been inclusive? other work that you have done that has been inclusive? What the audience engagement has What the audience engagement has been, especially maybe with this been, especially maybe with this community when you are seeing an community when you are seeing an audience that may be has not audience that may be has not seen a representation of seen a representation of themselves or that culture. themselves or that culture. Talk a little bit more about what your expense has been with that. Talk a little bit more about what your expense has been with that. >> The feedback we get from our audience with our immersive >> The feedback we get from our audience with our immersive pieces as opposed to our other pieces as opposed to our other programs is overwhelming. programs is overwhelming. We find we get long e-mails from We find we get long e-mails from people sometimes a month after people sometimes a month after they have been to the show talking about in detail what their experience was like in the they have been to the show talking about in detail what their experience was like in the space. space. That presents its own challenge That presents its own challenge because your funders want qualitative information and you because your funders want qualitative information and you have tons of stories from people but no format to submit them. have tons of stories from people but no format to submit them. That becomes a challenge as well. That becomes a challenge as well. We have become accustomed to a different kind of feedback. We have become accustomed to a different kind of feedback. The thing that surprised us the most about the feedback for the The thing that surprised us the most about the feedback for the show was we did not have this show was we did not have this audience before. audience before. We had not done any sensory We had not done any sensory friendly programming. friendly programming. We had not done outreach. This was our first venture. We had not done outreach. This was our first venture. Part of that was relying on the Part of that was relying on the trust in the festival to bring trust in the festival to bring an audience with it because it an audience with it because it was offering a showcase of was offering a showcase of shows that parents could choose from. shows that parents could choose from. Throughout the festival, there was not one day that was your day. Throughout the festival, there was not one day that was your day. There were several days you could do lots of things. There were several days you could do lots of things. It was OK if you could not get It was OK if you could not get out the door today but can't tomorrow. out the door today but can't tomorrow. We were surprised to find we We were surprised to find we filled almost filled almost all the possible slots when we had no audience to speak up outside of our all the possible slots when we had no audience to speak up outside of our partnerships and the people that brought other people to our door. partnerships and the people that brought other people to our door. It was also very surprising when It was also very surprising when we turned on the forest and it we turned on the forest and it was active with these different was active with these different neighborhood inhabitants. neighborhood inhabitants. That was the way we allowed kids That was the way we allowed kids who could only have a 15-minute who could only have a 15-minute experience up to kids that wanted to be there for 90 experience up to kids that wanted to be there for 90 minutes. minutes. Allow them to leave at their leisure. Allow them to leave at their leisure. That was the role she ended up playing. That was the role she ended up playing. She was the queen of the forest. She was the queen of the forest. You were told to find her when you are ready to leave. You were told to find her when you are ready to leave. She was always there. She was always there. That became our way to give them That became our way to give them an end an end so they got a culminating experience with a beginning and end. so they got a culminating experience with a beginning and end. It was based on the kid's timing and not our timing. It was based on the kid's timing and not our timing. It became interesting and a It became interesting and a great moment. great moment. We were excited the way people gravitated towards roles in the rehearsal process. We were excited the way people gravitated towards roles in the rehearsal process. That and she got to be queen. That and she got to be queen. That was a great moment for a That was a great moment for a lot of kids to look at her and realize they could be her if they wanted to. lot of kids to look at her and realize they could be her if they wanted to. That is something people thought That is something people thought was really great. was really great. Parents gave us feedback about that. Parents gave us feedback about that. We had an actor that have We had an actor that have discrete anecdote that she still discrete anecdote that she still cries about whenever she talks about it. cries about whenever she talks about it. We all had different, touching We all had different, touching experiences from the show. It is a touching thing. experiences from the show. It is a touching thing. What you see family members and What you see family members and audience members go through, it is a journey you are taking together. audience members go through, it is a journey you are taking together. It is intimate the entire time. It is intimate the entire time. You have to be listening the entire time. You have to be listening the entire time. We were overwhelmed in general We were overwhelmed in general by the feedback families had on the lack of programming and by the feedback families had on the lack of programming and options they have in general. options they have in general. They are happy you did anything at all. They are happy you did anything at all. The experience they had watching The experience they had watching their children play or do something they did not think their children play or do something they did not think they would do or even make it 90 they would do or even make it 90 minutes when they have not been more than 20 minutes anywhere in minutes when they have not been more than 20 minutes anywhere in their entire lives is deeply moving. their entire lives is deeply moving. Gail's favorite story is how we Gail's favorite story is how we had puppet characters we found had puppet characters we found through a variety of workshops that children gravitated more through a variety of workshops that children gravitated more easily to puppets than two easily to puppets than two people, particularly this community. people, particularly this community. It was the first character kids saw. It was the first character kids saw. There was a little girl that There was a little girl that came through the was very timid but absolutely in love with Simon. came through the was very timid but absolutely in love with Simon. Gail went throughout the expense Gail went throughout the expense with this child hugging her arm with this child hugging her arm for a solid hour. for a solid hour. As the show went on and Simon went with her into the forest, As the show went on and Simon went with her into the forest, she clutched more and more to she clutched more and more to this alpaca. this alpaca. Eventually, they all sang and Eventually, they all sang and danced in the forest green she danced in the forest green she got up and danced with Simon. got up and danced with Simon. There was a moment where the There was a moment where the girl was fine and she stepped back to allow her to engage with other kids. girl was fine and she stepped back to allow her to engage with other kids. The parents of the girl came The parents of the girl came over and mouthed to Gail "thank over and mouthed to Gail "thank you." you." She started to cry. She started to cry. The parents were emotional. The parents were emotional. The kind of experience for many The kind of experience for many parents was not the kind they had had in other spaces. parents was not the kind they had had in other spaces. It became clear to us this work It became clear to us this work if it is done intentionally, if it is done intentionally, even if you are afraid you will have a moment where you do even if you are afraid you will have a moment where you do something very stupid, if you do something very stupid, if you do it and try, parents are deeply moved by the fact you are doing it and try, parents are deeply moved by the fact you are doing anything at all, which is the unfortunate state of affairs right now. anything at all, which is the unfortunate state of affairs right now. That trying anything is applauded. That trying anything is applauded. But we found the reactions we But we found the reactions we had to this particular show had to this particular show compared to our other compared to our other immersives, while they are always moving, for this immersives, while they are always moving, for this community it was especially meaningful. community it was especially meaningful. David: Can you talk a little bit David: Can you talk a little bit CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW FUN IT WAS TO BE THE QUEEN AND FUN IT WAS TO BE THE QUEEN AND ALSO ABOUT THE FILM PROJECT MY ALSO ABOUT THE FILM PROJECT MY THE OTHER EXPERIENCES YOU HAVE THE OTHER EXPERIENCES YOU HAVE HAD WITH THAT PERFORMING? HAD WITH THAT PERFORMING? AND YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU KIND OF MOVE FROM HERE? AND YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU KIND OF MOVE FROM HERE? DO YOU HAVE OTHER GOALS OR DO YOU HAVE OTHER GOALS OR THINGS YOU ARE LOOKING TO DO AS THINGS YOU ARE LOOKING TO DO AS A PERFORMER? A PERFORMER? VANYA: I MENTIONED BEFORE, WHAT VANYA: I MENTIONED BEFORE, WHAT I MENTIONED ABOUT INCLUSION I MENTIONED ABOUT INCLUSION FILMS, FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW. FILMS, FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW. I DO NOT KNOW WHO KNOWS. I DO NOT KNOW WHO KNOWS. THIS IS AN INCLUSIVE FILM STUDIO THIS IS AN INCLUSIVE FILM STUDIO RUN OUT OF BAKERSFIELD, RUN OUT OF BAKERSFIELD, CALIFORNIA. CALIFORNIA. THAT IS WHERE THE FILM SCHOOL IS. THAT IS WHERE THE FILM SCHOOL IS. AND IT IS A STUDIO MOSTLY FOR AND IT IS A STUDIO MOSTLY FOR PEOPLE ON THE SPECTRUM, ALTHOUGH PEOPLE ON THE SPECTRUM, ALTHOUGH THEY DO ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLE WITH THEY DO ACCEPT OTHER PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. DISABILITIES. AND I SPECIFICALLY HAVE ATTENDED AND I SPECIFICALLY HAVE ATTENDED THEIR FILM CAMP FOR A 30 YEAR -- THEIR FILM CAMP FOR A 30 YEAR -- FOR A THIRD YEAR NOW. AND IT IS FOR PEOPLE ON THE FOR A THIRD YEAR NOW. AND IT IS FOR PEOPLE ON THE SPECTRUM AND THOSE WITH A DOWN SYNDROME. SPECTRUM AND THOSE WITH A DOWN SYNDROME. THERE IS A TWO-WEEK LONG SUMMER THERE IS A TWO-WEEK LONG SUMMER PROGRAM AND OF THE GOAL IS TO PROGRAM AND OF THE GOAL IS TO GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A SHORT FILM IN THE SPAN CREATE A SHORT FILM IN THE SPAN OF THOSE TWO WEEKS AND TO LEARN OF THOSE TWO WEEKS AND TO LEARN ABOUT THE PROCESS OF FILMMAKING ABOUT THE PROCESS OF FILMMAKING AND THE FILMMAKING BUSINESS AND AND THE FILMMAKING BUSINESS AND HOPEFULLY TO EVENTUALLY GIVE HOPEFULLY TO EVENTUALLY GIVE THESE PEOPLE A LAUNCHING POINT THESE PEOPLE A LAUNCHING POINT TO HAVE A CAREER IN FILM OR IN TO HAVE A CAREER IN FILM OR IN THE ARTS, IN SOME MANNER, AND TO THE ARTS, IN SOME MANNER, AND TO GIVE THEM CONNECTIONS IF THAT IS GIVE THEM CONNECTIONS IF THAT IS WHAT THEY SO CHOOSE TO DO. WHAT THEY SO CHOOSE TO DO. SO I HAVE BEEN CAST IN A COUPLE SO I HAVE BEEN CAST IN A COUPLE OF THOSE FILMS SO FAR AND THAT OF THOSE FILMS SO FAR AND THAT HAS BEEN A LOT OF FUN. HAS BEEN A LOT OF FUN. AND OF COURSE, BRICOLAGE . AND OF COURSE, BRICOLAGE . OTHER THAN THAT AND WELCOME TO OTHER THAN THAT AND WELCOME TO HEAR, I HAVE NOT HAD EXPERIENCE HEAR, I HAVE NOT HAD EXPERIENCE IN THE ARTS, PROFESSIONALLY. IN THE ARTS, PROFESSIONALLY. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ARTISTIC IN GENERAL. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ARTISTIC IN GENERAL. IN VARIOUS AREAS. IN VARIOUS AREAS. BUT I HAVE NOT, FOR EXAMPLE, I BUT I HAVE NOT, FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED. HAVE NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED. MY WRITING HAS NEVER BEEN MY WRITING HAS NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED. PUBLISHED. THIS IS THE ONLY PROFESSIONAL THIS IS THE ONLY PROFESSIONAL ACTING PERFORMANCE I HAVE BEEN IN. ACTING PERFORMANCE I HAVE BEEN IN. THAT SORT OF THING. THAT SORT OF THING. I AM HOPING TO INTERN IN THE FUTURE. I AM HOPING TO INTERN IN THE FUTURE. I am hoping to go on and do more I am hoping to go on and do more advocacy in the future in various areas. advocacy in the future in various areas. Not just in the disability community. Not just in the disability community. Other than that, I do not have Other than that, I do not have much plans, just because it is much plans, just because it is extremely difficult, especially extremely difficult, especially for a young disabled person to for a young disabled person to try to get into the arts, professionally. try to get into the arts, professionally. Particularly with, and this is a Particularly with, and this is a tangent, but I am on disability tangent, but I am on disability payment, disability benefits, so payment, disability benefits, so it is difficult for me to be in it is difficult for me to be in the arts professionally at all, the arts professionally at all, because it would affect that significantly and I cannot because it would affect that significantly and I cannot affect to have that -- I cannot affect to have that -- I cannot afford to have that affected. afford to have that affected. David: these are David: these are things that are community has to deal with. things that are community has to deal with. There are a lot of other things going on. There are a lot of other things going on. I would also like to talk, I would also like to talk, Jackie, about -- we were talking Jackie, about -- we were talking about this broad learning about this broad learning experience you have had and sort experience you have had and sort of where at times we start an of where at times we start an initiative at times and we need initiative at times and we need to be specific and make it a to be specific and make it a disability engagement. disability engagement. And we learn, just by creating And we learn, just by creating this opportunity, it opens up a this opportunity, it opens up a much broader universal much broader universal experience. experience. Can you talk about the radio Can you talk about the radio play project that you guys do play project that you guys do and the sort of how you started and the sort of how you started a very specific initiative that a very specific initiative that was disability specific, then was disability specific, then ultimately learned that there is ultimately learned that there is broader appeal to it? broader appeal to it? Jackie: absolutely. Jackie: absolutely. A lot of our work started with A lot of our work started with what we learned here at lead. what we learned here at lead. I went and I took all of the I went and I took all of the basic tracks, because I felt basic tracks, because I felt like I knew nothing and I was like I knew nothing and I was terrified to be here and I do terrified to be here and I do not know -- and I did not know what to do. not know -- and I did not know what to do. But the Pittsburgh Mafia said it But the Pittsburgh Mafia said it was OK to not know and to just learn. was OK to not know and to just learn. And that is where it started. And that is where it started. One thing I lied about was One thing I lied about was sensory -- learned about was sensory workshops. sensory -- learned about was sensory workshops. We have a 1940's radio format We have a 1940's radio format called "midnight radio." called "midnight radio." We tell the audience members to close their eyes and enjoy good We tell the audience members to close their eyes and enjoy good and we do the side effects -- enjoy. and we do the side effects -- enjoy. It would do the side effects It would do the side effects with props -- sound effects with roles. with props -- sound effects with roles. If you do not want to be an If you do not want to be an immersive theater piece you can immersive theater piece you can still come and be part of the show. still come and be part of the show. We started doing these sensory We started doing these sensory workshops where we would give workshops where we would give you the full props and allow you you the full props and allow you to create a scene. to create a scene. And after a year, we at -- we And after a year, we at -- we realized we do not need to call realized we do not need to call them sensory workshops I'm a them sensory workshops I'm a anybody could come -- workshops, anybody could come. anybody could come -- workshops, anybody could come. We do not need to market to a We do not need to market to a certain community. certain community. Lots of people could benefit from that. Lots of people could benefit from that. It was not only cutting the It was not only cutting the audience, but ensuring that only audience, but ensuring that only those people came and there was those people came and there was no audience integration. no audience integration. So we called it a fully workshop So we called it a fully workshop and we started getting students. We got a lot more people who and we started getting students. We got a lot more people who came and were interested in what came and were interested in what it was and how to use it and it was and how to use it and wanting to re-create a thing, so wanting to re-create a thing, so right after they could hear the right after they could hear the moment they had already created and they could remember, there moment they had already created and they could remember, there is the basketball, there is the is the basketball, there is the squeaky shoes I know these squeaky shoes I know these sounds. sounds. And we experience the same thing And we experience the same thing with welcome to hear. with welcome to hear. We had a safe space for the show. We had a safe space for the show. We do not have a lot of kids We do not have a lot of kids with autism that used it, but we did find that we needed it for a with autism that used it, but we did find that we needed it for a lot of other things, parents lot of other things, parents with babies, somebody who needed with babies, somebody who needed a moment to take a personal a moment to take a personal phone call and we gave priority, phone call and we gave priority, of course, to those who had of course, to those who had autism and needed a moment. autism and needed a moment. But we found by creating these But we found by creating these things and not saying this is things and not saying this is only for a certain group of only for a certain group of people, this was a way that we people, this was a way that we found that is an interesting found that is an interesting incorporation of the element of incorporation of the element of universal design. universal design. Elevators help everybody. Elevators help everybody. We are trying to discover what We are trying to discover what that looks like across the that looks like across the different programs, asking different programs, asking people what they want and what people what they want and what makes sense to them and trying makes sense to them and trying to keep in mind that we are not to keep in mind that we are not interested in a special night interested in a special night for a special group of people to come to the theater, but finding for a special group of people to come to the theater, but finding ways to make choices that mean ways to make choices that mean that everybody, or most people, that everybody, or most people, can be invited and welcome and can be invited and welcome and talk to all the people that are talk to all the people that are there and not be segregated into there and not be segregated into this different audience section this different audience section that only gets to do so for an that only gets to do so for an -- only gets to do certain -- only gets to do certain things or have certain moments. things or have certain moments. David: speaking to universal David: speaking to universal design and integration of design and integration of inclusion in general, inclusion in general, specifically with the theater, specifically with the theater, Bricolage, can you talk about Bricolage, can you talk about how this has affected how you how this has affected how you approach your work now and your approach your work now and your belief in terms of how, how you belief in terms of how, how you can use those concepts of can use those concepts of universal design, especially in universal design, especially in the style of work that you do, the style of work that you do, because you are moving, because you are moving, traveling, you are sometimes in traveling, you are sometimes in specific places. specific places. How you can begin to use that How you can begin to use that terminology and the lesson of terminology and the lesson of broader engagement, just into broader engagement, just into your future work. your future work. Vanya: one thing we learned -- Vanya: one thing we learned -- Jackie: one thing we learned, Jackie: one thing we learned, one of the moments when we sat one of the moments when we sat down with vanya, and she asked, down with vanya, and she asked, why are you doing it this way? why are you doing it this way? Previously, the immersive pieces Previously, the immersive pieces were very mathematical were very mathematical experiences on the backend. experiences on the backend. We know exactly where you are We know exactly where you are and how long the experience will and how long the experience will take with a certain number of take with a certain number of minutes of variation and we've minutes of variation and we've eyes in the sky that are eyes in the sky that are monitoring you and everything monitoring you and everything must be on time, in order for that to work. must be on time, in order for that to work. There were two things that were There were two things that were different in this scenario, we were dealing with people that different in this scenario, we were dealing with people that wanted to be on their own wanted to be on their own schedules, not just because they schedules, not just because they may have autism, but they are children. may have autism, but they are children. And you cannot tell children And you cannot tell children where to go or how long to play where to go or how long to play with something. with something. So we had to completely change everything. So we had to completely change everything. We were on a grid system with We were on a grid system with the show, saying you would be in the show, saying you would be in this room for five minutes, and this room for five minutes, and then you would be taken for then you would be taken for about three minutes, and it took about three minutes, and it took us maybe one day to test and us maybe one day to test and realize that this was a mess. realize that this was a mess. So, we also had a moment with So, we also had a moment with Vanya where we had the script Vanya where we had the script completed and we read through it completed and we read through it and we did the table read and it and we did the table read and it is one of those things that is one of those things that endeared me to her and she said, endeared me to her and she said, I thought this was for people I thought this was for people with autism spectrum disorders. with autism spectrum disorders. There are a lot of words in the There are a lot of words in the script. [LAUGHTER] script. [LAUGHTER] Jackie: and we were like, yeah, Jackie: and we were like, yeah, that is how you write a script. that is how you write a script. The end result was, it took a The end result was, it took a lot of killing our darlings and throwing out the ego and lot of killing our darlings and throwing out the ego and listening to what she was listening to what she was saying, because she was not just speaking for herself, but she saying, because she was not just speaking for herself, but she was speaking for her brothers was speaking for her brothers who would come through, and she who would come through, and she could experience our show just could experience our show just fine, and she knew that her fine, and she knew that her brother would come in and hear brother would come in and hear all of these words and perhaps shut down. all of these words and perhaps shut down. So we ended up with a character So we ended up with a character that was nonverbal that was met that was nonverbal that was met with rave reviews from the with rave reviews from the parents and that was due to her parents and that was due to her feedback. feedback. We threw out the grid approach, We threw out the grid approach, altogether and I am generally altogether and I am generally curious to see what next year's curious to see what next year's immersive will become a great immersive will become a great experience, something that can be times, but also have an experience, something that can be times, but also have an untimed component, it is a untimed component, it is a completely different way of completely different way of building it and it makes building it and it makes complete sense. complete sense. When you're in it, it was a duh moment for her. When you're in it, it was a duh moment for her. And that is the story of this, And that is the story of this, we are set in our ways of we are set in our ways of approach and the ego gets in the way and we are not listening. approach and the ego gets in the way and we are not listening. So we took that notes in a big So we took that notes in a big way -- note in a big way. way -- note in a big way. And now we are thinking, when we And now we are thinking, when we do everything, we ask the do everything, we ask the question, who are we excluding? question, who are we excluding? What is the barrier? What is the barrier? Is it within my resources to Is it within my resources to remove that barrier, or is it up remove that barrier, or is it up to me that -- to me to own the barrier? to me that -- to me to own the barrier? David: right. David: right. In terms of that inclusive -- or In terms of that inclusive -- or thinking, how -- who am I thinking, how -- who am I excluding? excluding? The lessons learned by The lessons learned by integrating a performer with a integrating a performer with a disability can be overly used in the future in ways you may not disability can be overly used in the future in ways you may not even imagine now. even imagine now. So, just another question for So, just another question for both of you, and I think we have both of you, and I think we have sort of asked to this with most sort of asked to this with most of the interviews, what advice of the interviews, what advice would you give to performing would you give to performing arts organizations, specifically arts organizations, specifically in ways of including artists with disabilities and making in ways of including artists with disabilities and making that accommodation? that accommodation? In the rewards -- and the In the rewards -- and the rewards of that? rewards of that? And some of the challenges you And some of the challenges you may have overcome, or you may may have overcome, or you may have thought would be talented, have thought would be talented, yet, you know, maybe they were yet, you know, maybe they were not. not. And long you, as a performer -- And long you, as a performer -- vany a, as a performer, any vany a, as a performer, any advice you would like to share advice you would like to share for organizations. for organizations. Vanya: I Vanya: I suppose that the most suppose that the most important advice, reiterating important advice, reiterating what has been said, ask and listen. what has been said, ask and listen. Because really, if you are going Because really, if you are going to be creating a piece for a to be creating a piece for a specific community, or if you specific community, or if you are going to be having people are going to be having people from a specific community in from a specific community in your production, then you need your production, then you need to ask that community, what do to ask that community, what do you need? you need? What do you want? What do you want? Because, like Jackie was saying, Because, like Jackie was saying, often it is not obvious to you as an outsider. often it is not obvious to you as an outsider. Um, to me it Um, to me it was so obvious that was so obvious that if you are creating a piece for if you are creating a piece for people on the spectrum, you people on the spectrum, you should, and it is supposed to be should, and it is supposed to be inclusive, you should include inclusive, you should include ways for completely nonverbal ways for completely nonverbal people to interact and limit the people to interact and limit the reliance on language. reliance on language. That was so obvious to me, that That was so obvious to me, that I do not think to mention it I do not think to mention it before the script was written. before the script was written. But as we learned, that is not But as we learned, that is not obvious to somebody that is used obvious to somebody that is used to writing scripts and that is to writing scripts and that is what they do, so -- really, just communication between you and what they do, so -- really, just communication between you and the community you are working the community you are working with and for, is the key. with and for, is the key. It is the key to making It is the key to making something that somebody will something that somebody will feel included and really be able feel included and really be able to participate in. to participate in. And the same goes for when you And the same goes for when you are including people with are including people with disabilities on your production, disabilities on your production, like on your team. like on your team. Because the people at Bricolage Because the people at Bricolage really tried to work with me and really tried to work with me and the first night I came in, we the first night I came in, we sat down and I had a talk with sat down and I had a talk with the entire team about my needs the entire team about my needs and what, how I would -- the and what, how I would -- the things that maybe would not be things that maybe would not be obvious as differences in obvious as differences in processing, in mental processing, in mental processing, and how I receive information. processing, and how I receive information. The very important to me as The very important to me as someone who was it going to be someone who was it going to be working for them, because we had working for them, because we had that long conversation I felt that long conversation I felt more comfortable being able to more comfortable being able to express my own needs throughout express my own needs throughout the reduction. the reduction. -- production. -- production. So again, like communication So again, like communication with the performers, people who with the performers, people who are you -- people who you are are you -- people who you are working with, making sure that working with, making sure that they are comfortable telling you they are comfortable telling you what they need from you, and what they need from you, and where to give you what you want. where to give you what you want. Jackie: absolutely, ask and listen. Jackie: absolutely, ask and listen. Actually here what they are Actually here what they are saying -- hear what they are saying -- hear what they are saying, and ask yourself why am saying, and ask yourself why am I doing the things I am doing? I doing the things I am doing? Why do I continue it, in spite Why do I continue it, in spite of feedback that I continue to of feedback that I continue to get that it is not reaching get that it is not reaching certain people? certain people? I thought, before I came to I thought, before I came to lead, how much time do these lead, how much time do these people have? people have? We have a $500,000 budget range We have a $500,000 budget range and way of six full-time staff and way of six full-time staff members -- range and we have asked full-time staff members. members -- range and we have asked full-time staff members. Sometimes it is OK to not know where to start. Sometimes it is OK to not know where to start. There is a supportive community There is a supportive community out there, people who are eager out there, people who are eager to help and give you feedback to help and give you feedback and make the place that is close and make the place that is close to them, the arts place, a place for them. And they will tell you what they to them, the arts place, a place for them. And they will tell you what they want and need and they will be want and need and they will be very patient. very patient. And they will generously donate And they will generously donate time telling you what you are messing up. time telling you what you are messing up. And all you have to do is listen And all you have to do is listen and actually implement it, and actually implement it, instead of sitting on the information. instead of sitting on the information. And if you are lucky enough to be in a position of power and And if you are lucky enough to be in a position of power and you have control in the organization, do everything you you have control in the organization, do everything you can to remove every little piece can to remove every little piece of red tape that you can. of red tape that you can. The reason that we went from a The reason that we went from a place of absolutely zero place of absolutely zero initiatives, the three years initiatives, the three years later having all the programs later having all the programs having a program -- having a having a program -- having a component with sensory component with sensory workshops, to programs based on workshops, to programs based on this and actually creatively this and actually creatively collaborating with people with collaborating with people with disabilities, to immersive disabilities, to immersive guides who are one-on-one guides who are one-on-one companions that will meet companions that will meet whatever your personal bucket of whatever your personal bucket of these is when you come through these is when you come through -- needs is when you come -- needs is when you come through -- the way we got there is by getting rid of the red through -- the way we got there is by getting rid of the red tape and being honest with ourselves about what we were tape and being honest with ourselves about what we were doing right and wrong. doing right and wrong. David: great. David: great. Awesome. Awesome. Think is a much for sharing -- thank you so much for sharing. Think is a much for sharing -- thank you so much for sharing. I want to open it up for questions. I want to open it up for questions. We would love to hear some. We would love to hear some. >> >> hi, I do not really have a hi, I do not really have a question, but I wanted to ask question, but I wanted to ask vanya, would you mind sharing vanya, would you mind sharing your age? your age? Vanya: I am 18. Vanya: I am 18. >> I wanted to say >> I wanted to say , when you are speaking, I only have one , when you are speaking, I only have one professional acting credit, one professional acting credit, one professional writing credit, to professional writing credit, to really own that. really own that. That is a huge success for any That is a huge success for any 18-year-old to have. 18-year-old to have. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] >> so, that is certainly the >> so, that is certainly the start of a bright future and I hope that you know that. start of a bright future and I hope that you know that. Vanya: thank you. Vanya: thank you. David: Tiffany, we have one down David: Tiffany, we have one down house left. house left. >> thank you. >> thank you. First of all, this is Vanessa. First of all, this is Vanessa. And I am just so impressed by And I am just so impressed by this entire project and I knew this entire project and I knew about it from the onset. about it from the onset. Even read the social story that Even read the social story that you guys created around it, but you guys created around it, but just to hear the background of just to hear the background of what happened, it is, it makes what happened, it is, it makes me wildly proud to be a part of me wildly proud to be a part of this community with the two of you. this community with the two of you. So thank you. So thank you. Thanks for that. Thanks for that. And my question is, on average, And my question is, on average, how long did people stay in the how long did people stay in the forest? forest? And to follow that up , did you have any children or family And to follow that up , did you have any children or family members with multiple members with multiple disabilities? disabilities? Another disability on top of Another disability on top of being on the autism spectrum. being on the autism spectrum. Jackie: sorry, the first met Jackie: sorry, the first met there were -- the first, there there were -- the first, there were two questions -- how long were two questions -- how long did kids stay in the forest? did kids stay in the forest? We were hoping it would be a 30 We were hoping it would be a 30 minute experience. minute experience. The shortest of venture I think The shortest of venture I think took -- we were making them took -- we were making them leave the forest. leave the forest. And having a conversation that And having a conversation that just happened to lead to the end just happened to lead to the end of the pipe. of the pipe. -- end of the play. -- end of the play. So we were very pleased that we So we were very pleased that we had multiple parents that came had multiple parents that came and said, my kid has not been 90 and said, my kid has not been 90 minutes anywhere, ever. minutes anywhere, ever. And this is our first time we've And this is our first time we've been able to sit and relax and been able to sit and relax and they can watch them play like at they can watch them play like at the playground. the playground. Those were some of the most Those were some of the most meaningful ones. meaningful ones. We did have a kid come through We did have a kid come through that was six years old and he that was six years old and he was blind and he had was blind and he had sensitivities, so we had a phone sensitivities, so we had a phone call in advance to see what we could do. call in advance to see what we could do. And we had piloted the common -- And we had piloted the common -- the idea of an immersive the idea of an immersive companion, because it is so companion, because it is so immersive and personal, it immersive and personal, it starts at a different time for everybody. starts at a different time for everybody. And because it is a highly And because it is a highly sensory-based experience, there sensory-based experience, there are barriers that could occur. are barriers that could occur. So we tested it during the So we tested it during the Saints tour to CF a personal -- Saints tour to CF a personal -- see if a personal audio described her would be see if a personal audio described her would be successful. successful. It was. We did a rough draft on one of It was. We did a rough draft on one of our friends of the theater that our friends of the theater that is with us today, Brian. is with us today, Brian. Who kindly went through the Who kindly went through the forest like a child. And we had the audio described forest like a child. And we had the audio described her, Marianne, go through and her, Marianne, go through and practice on him, so that practice on him, so that whenever Tommy came, he was able to go through the force and she whenever Tommy came, he was able to go through the force and she was ready and knew what to was ready and knew what to describe and new with some describe and new with some possible barriers where. possible barriers where. That was the first time we That was the first time we successfully employed the idea successfully employed the idea of an immersive companion. of an immersive companion. And I do not know how many And I do not know how many people we could accommodate in that way. people we could accommodate in that way. We are interested in testing We are interested in testing that, but we were excited to that, but we were excited to make it successful this year. make it successful this year. Vanya: Brian, do you want to say Vanya: Brian, do you want to say anything about that? anything about that? Brian: it is great that they Brian: it is great that they opened it up to a bigger window, opened it up to a bigger window, then just the ones we had. then just the ones we had. And it was great to actually circle back. And it was great to actually circle back. I went back, I was planning on I went back, I was planning on going on my own without a going on my own without a describing. describing. -- describer. -- describer. The fact that they opened it up The fact that they opened it up and I got back, and I asked, how and I got back, and I asked, how did it go? did it go? That was great. That was great. Jackie: we did have a few kids Jackie: we did have a few kids that also were in will chairs, that also were in will chairs, but as -- wheelchair, but as our but as -- wheelchair, but as our space is accessible, we had space is accessible, we had dealt with that. It did not present much of a dealt with that. It did not present much of a barrier for us. barrier for us. Vanya: any other questions? Vanya: any other questions? David: cool. David: cool. I think now we are just going to transition into kind of a wrapup. I think now we are just going to transition into kind of a wrapup. Thank you for hanging out. Thank you for hanging out. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] Christine and I will begin the Christine and I will begin the wrapup portion. wrapup portion. Are you more comfortable with Are you more comfortable with the chair? the chair? David: David: so, Tiffany I guess, if so, Tiffany I guess, if you could help us a little bit you could help us a little bit with going through some of the with going through some of the Post-it notes and a sort of Post-it notes and a sort of reading out the responses that reading out the responses that have come through the day and have come through the day and allow us to wrapup with these allow us to wrapup with these ideas. ideas. Tiffany: you all had great Tiffany: you all had great thoughts, thank you for that. thoughts, thank you for that. The little cluster that was The little cluster that was about insights, let's see. about insights, let's see. Sorry if I am not in the camera shot. Sorry if I am not in the camera shot. One was design and accessibility One was design and accessibility do not have to be in complicated do not have to be in complicated design can be -- be in conflict. design can be -- be in conflict. Design can be the solution. Design can be the solution. And finding the balance between And finding the balance between spectrum and inspiration. spectrum and inspiration. When disability is the common When disability is the common denominator, i.e. studio artists denominator, i.e. studio artists residencies, then they are residencies, then they are practice moves -- the art practice moves -- the art practice moves to the foreground. practice moves to the foreground. And one , to one, to one, each And one , to one, to one, each artist can grow exponentially. artist can grow exponentially. And listening happens with many And listening happens with many senses. senses. Working on being inclusive will Working on being inclusive will cause lots of missteps, but must keep the pendulum moving forward. cause lots of missteps, but must keep the pendulum moving forward. Those were the groups of Those were the groups of insights. insights. Let's see. Let's see. A couple of other things I think A couple of other things I think where probably insights also. where probably insights also. Need for open discussion about Need for open discussion about disability aesthetics. disability aesthetics. Disability disabled arts is profitable and should be Disability disabled arts is profitable and should be marketed as such. marketed as such. Accessibility should be part of Accessibility should be part of the basic customer service and the basic customer service and institutional artist driven institutional artist driven development of a new Canon, development of a new Canon, changing the stories on stage. changing the stories on stage. Actions coming out of the day, Actions coming out of the day, is this helpful? is this helpful? Do you want me to pause? Do you want me to pause? Actions coming of the day, advocacy for communities to Actions coming of the day, advocacy for communities to further move residencies, to further move or create further move residencies, to further move or create residencies for artists with residencies for artists with disabilities eared that is one -- disability. disabilities eared that is one -- disability. That is one for all of us. That is one for all of us. Always ask the artist what he or Always ask the artist what he or she prefers for accommodations. she prefers for accommodations. Inclusive collaborations are Inclusive collaborations are imperative. imperative. Good action steps. Good action steps. Finally, the list of questions Finally, the list of questions that were still out there. that were still out there. A couple, let's see, a couple of A couple, let's see, a couple of general ones and some specific. general ones and some specific. One is, the nonspecific ones, as One is, the nonspecific ones, as providers of arts program income are we learning about the providers of arts program income are we learning about the populations that we are serving? populations that we are serving? If so, how deeply? If so, how deeply? We have had a lot of examples of We have had a lot of examples of that, we are getting more deeper . that, we are getting more deeper . As arts providers, how are we As arts providers, how are we thinking of the individuals with thinking of the individuals with disabilities that are not disabilities that are not fortunate enough to have arts in fortunate enough to have arts in their lives, as audience members their lives, as audience members or otherwise, how are we or otherwise, how are we cultivating the outlier artists? cultivating the outlier artists? How do public spaces typically How do public spaces typically get accessibility wrong? get accessibility wrong? I think we have seen many I think we have seen many examples of that. examples of that. And another question, regarding And another question, regarding artists residencies, is it artists residencies, is it better to have an inclusive, better to have an inclusive, Limited residency, or a separate Limited residency, or a separate residency for an artist with residency for an artist with disabilities? disabilities? I think that is a good question I think that is a good question we have touched on. we have touched on. For Vermont studio center, let For Vermont studio center, let me grab this, fund me grab this, fund that there that there fellowship -- the Fellowship fellowship -- the Fellowship enriches the organization. enriches the organization. Who else has seen this? Who else has seen this? And for Vermont studio Center, And for Vermont studio Center, how do you address barriers that how do you address barriers that exist for people with exist for people with disabilities in the application disabilities in the application process? process? That applies to grant and other That applies to grant and other things like that. things like that. David: a lot of good questions. David: a lot of good questions. Christine, what are your Christine, what are your thoughts in terms of themes for the day? thoughts in terms of themes for the day? David: for me, I think it was, David: for me, I think it was, for me the whole purpose of for me the whole purpose of today was how we kind of, at today was how we kind of, at this conference, can begin to go this conference, can begin to go beyond the front of the house beyond the front of the house and how do we get the stages, and how do we get the stages, galleries, how do we get those galleries, how do we get those other, the creation of art other, the creation of art accessible, more accessible and accessible, more accessible and inclusive? inclusive? What really stuck out was the idea of getting to know the What really stuck out was the idea of getting to know the artist, how do we go about artist, how do we go about finding the artists, how do we finding the artists, how do we make -- and I think it takes a make -- and I think it takes a little bit of action from a little bit of action from a performing arts center. performing arts center. And from the averages of that And from the averages of that art, to really make the effort. art, to really make the effort. It is not only happened once, It is not only happened once, how does that happen once, -- how does that happen once, -- happen once, it happens again and again. happen once, it happens again and again. There are artists with There are artists with disabilities out there and they disabilities out there and they are creating work. are creating work. Making the effort to find and Making the effort to find and build those relationships. build those relationships. Christine: Christine: there are a lot of there are a lot of resources in this room, we can rely on each other. resources in this room, we can rely on each other. I will say, when we have questions, because I am going to I will say, when we have questions, because I am going to assume that those of us in the assume that those of us in the room will take these things back to our respective organizations room will take these things back to our respective organizations and figure out how we can implement them. and figure out how we can implement them. Because, one of the things that Because, one of the things that I think is important is that we do not leave this conversation in the room. I think is important is that we do not leave this conversation in the room. That we really take steps, even That we really take steps, even if they are baby steps, one or if they are baby steps, one or two actionable items that are two actionable items that are going to make a difference in going to make a difference in our organizations and start to our organizations and start to create the seachange. create the seachange. Even a shift in the can, if you Even a shift in the can, if you go back and say, hey, are we -- go back and say, hey, are we -- have we reached out to any have we reached out to any artists with disabilities, or artists with disabilities, or have we thought about having somebody with a disability on have we thought about having somebody with a disability on our creative staff? our creative staff? Just to start to open ideas Just to start to open ideas about that perspective. about that perspective. To me, that is the most To me, that is the most important thing. important thing. So often, David and I do these So often, David and I do these types of things, and so often people say that they have these types of things, and so often people say that they have these great conversations and we are great conversations and we are also jazzed, even though our also jazzed, even though our heads -- even though we have heads -- even though we have been here for a week, and our been here for a week, and our heads are full of these ideas, heads are full of these ideas, but within -- but then we go but within -- but then we go back in our inbox is full and we back in our inbox is full and we are overwhelmed with the 57 are overwhelmed with the 57 different hats we wear. I think if there is a way that different hats we wear. I think if there is a way that we can sort of clear that out of we can sort of clear that out of our minds and to, OK, we will our minds and to, OK, we will make this a priority. make this a priority. Even if it is something small, Even if it is something small, that is a step forward. that is a step forward. >> I am sitting down, because I thought it was going to stay >> I am sitting down, because I thought it was going to stay away, but one thing that my ADD away, but one thing that my ADD brain does well is it pulled out brain does well is it pulled out -- pulls out universal themes. -- pulls out universal themes. What I was hearing today was What I was hearing today was talking with each other, but one talking with each other, but one of the things I also heard was, of the things I also heard was, and it struck me especially with and it struck me especially with something that vanya said, was developing trust. something that vanya said, was developing trust. Communication developed trust, Communication developed trust, because as Barack was saying, because as Barack was saying, there is a level of there is a level of vulnerability, especially with vulnerability, especially with artists. artists. Artists, because I am not one, I Artists, because I am not one, I see you all differently. see you all differently. I see the courage that you have I see the courage that you have in sharing what is inside of you in sharing what is inside of you in your art, right? in your art, right? But every time that we are But every time that we are talking about artists with talking about artists with disabilities, and I have this disabilities, and I have this conversation with artists with conversation with artists with disabilities all the time, is disabilities all the time, is that they are listening very that they are listening very carefully when you are invited carefully when you are invited to work with them, to see to work with them, to see whether you are genuinely whether you are genuinely interested in them, or whether you are hoping to tap into interested in them, or whether you are hoping to tap into another stream of funding by another stream of funding by having them as a prop. having them as a prop. Right? Right? And so, what this comes down to And so, what this comes down to is authenticity and credibility. is authenticity and credibility. I do not want anybody to walk I do not want anybody to walk out of this room saying, I will out of this room saying, I will have a couple of extras. have a couple of extras. Or I like the concept of the guy Or I like the concept of the guy without the hand being a zombie without the hand being a zombie or a pirate. or a pirate. I do not want you to walk out of I do not want you to walk out of the room with that. the room with that. I want you to walk out with, I I want you to walk out with, I want this voice, this want this voice, this perspective to be not just perspective to be not just respected, but celebrated and respected, but celebrated and valued, right? valued, right? You know, getting ready for the You know, getting ready for the our experiences that we have our experiences that we have this week. this week. And getting ready for this day, And getting ready for this day, I came in with ideas of how it I came in with ideas of how it would happen, but everything would happen, but everything became so much more nuanced along the way. became so much more nuanced along the way. Our four performers for Thursday Our four performers for Thursday night all had incredibly night all had incredibly different ways of working, different ways of working, incredibly different concerns incredibly different concerns from coconut water to wearing a from coconut water to wearing a ducky had -- hat, to getting a ducky had -- hat, to getting a room with two beds and a rolling room with two beds and a rolling shower, which I did not know was shower, which I did not know was available in the hotel. available in the hotel. It required so much hospitality, It required so much hospitality, like Ryan was saying, like Ryan was saying, hospitality industry. hospitality industry. And a desire to make it a smooth And a desire to make it a smooth and pleasant experience, and I and pleasant experience, and I think -- and there were, we think -- and there were, we worked really hard to let people worked really hard to let people know that we wanted them to come know that we wanted them to come for themselves. for themselves. Not to be the representative of Not to be the representative of black artists with disabilities, or to be the single black artists with disabilities, or to be the single representative of people who use representative of people who use wheelchairs, you know? wheelchairs, you know? We wanted people to be We wanted people to be themselves. themselves. There is a level of tokenism There is a level of tokenism that comes with this. that comes with this. But it should be, I want to But it should be, I want to listen to you as a person. listen to you as a person. That is probably how we should That is probably how we should approach everybody in the world. approach everybody in the world. That is what I have learned from That is what I have learned from all of this, that you, this is all of this, that you, this is hard work but it has been the hard work but it has been the best work. best work. Christine: I think if you look Christine: I think if you look at it from the perspective of at it from the perspective of putting the art first, it will putting the art first, it will be way ahead of the game. be way ahead of the game. Because when you deal with a Because when you deal with a nondisabled actor, you have a nondisabled actor, you have a company manager who sets all of company manager who sets all of that up and there will be actors that up and there will be actors who have specific concerns. They may not have anything to do who have specific concerns. They may not have anything to do with access requirements, or with access requirements, or they may, but they may just be requirements of that figure they may, but they may just be requirements of that figure artist and you know you have to artist and you know you have to -- of that particular artist -- of that particular artist Andy -- artists and you need to Andy -- artists and you need to make sure that the artist is make sure that the artist is functioning at optimal level so functioning at optimal level so they can make the best art they they can make the best art they know how to make. know how to make. And I think we look at that that And I think we look at that that way, we argue racing all of the way, we argue racing all of the -- then we are erasing all of -- then we are erasing all of the categorizations. the categorizations. Some but he said -- somebody Some but he said -- somebody said, we were facilitating a said, we were facilitating a panel a few months ago, and panel a few months ago, and somebody said -- and I wanted to somebody said -- and I wanted to say this before when working say this before when working with deaf actors with deaf actors , they face , they face issues that other disabled issues that other disabled actors do not face, because a actors do not face, because a lot of the pushback that they lot of the pushback that they receive is funding, money. receive is funding, money. It costs too much to have It costs too much to have interpreters, it costs too much interpreters, it costs too much to have interpreters for auditions. to have interpreters for auditions. It is not an unreasonable It is not an unreasonable request for a death after to act request for a death after to act -- four A -- for a deaf interpreter, somebody that knows -- four A -- for a deaf interpreter, somebody that knows how to accurately interpret how to accurately interpret auditions for deaf actors, which auditions for deaf actors, which I think DJ started to stop -- to I think DJ started to stop -- to talk about. talk about. And somebody on the panel had a And somebody on the panel had a lightbulb moment, she said, I do lightbulb moment, she said, I do not understand why it is such a big deal. not understand why it is such a big deal. When we have a When we have a music audition, music audition, the accompanist comes and place for maybe 90 seconds, then they the accompanist comes and place for maybe 90 seconds, then they do nothing for five minutes, and do nothing for five minutes, and we do not that -- bat an eyelash we do not that -- bat an eyelash when we are building that when we are building that expense into the budget. expense into the budget. Why do we not afford the same Why do we not afford the same consideration to deaf actors. I think of we level the playing consideration to deaf actors. I think of we level the playing field by thinking of it as, what field by thinking of it as, what will make the artist we are will make the artist we are bringing in, what will make it bringing in, what will make it conducive for them to do the conducive for them to do the best work they can do. best work they can do. So we can see where they are So we can see where they are capable of doing, that makes it capable of doing, that makes it a lot easier to move forward in our thinking. a lot easier to move forward in our thinking. >> I >> I wanted to see the thoughts in the room. wanted to see the thoughts in the room. Tiffany: especially those who Tiffany: especially those who have not had a chance to say anything today. have not had a chance to say anything today. And I am curious how Betty and And I am curious how Betty and Jessica feel about the day. Jessica feel about the day. Their thoughts on this whole Their thoughts on this whole thing. thing. Let me know if you want to say anything. Let me know if you want to say anything. Anybody else want to say Anybody else want to say anything? anything? >> >> I do not know why I am always saying something. I do not know why I am always saying something. I am glad that you mentioned I am glad that you mentioned that he and Jessica, because one that he and Jessica, because one of my questions -- Betty and Jessica, because when my of my questions -- Betty and Jessica, because when my questions was, this is my first questions was, this is my first time here, but I do not know enough about the follow-up time here, but I do not know enough about the follow-up opportunities through lead. opportunities through lead. One thing I would love to have One thing I would love to have Outlook today is -- to have out Outlook today is -- to have out of today, if there is any of today, if there is any notetaking that has happened sort of universally, giving the notetaking that has happened sort of universally, giving the website people have mentioned, website people have mentioned, or some of the spellings of some or some of the spellings of some of the things I have been of the things I have been unfamiliar with. unfamiliar with. And maybe Google could not find And maybe Google could not find them, because I heard them wrong. them, because I heard them wrong. And is there a Facebook page And is there a Facebook page that people can post to and that people can post to and share through, or another way of share through, or another way of doing that? doing that? That would be great information That would be great information for me to have. for me to have. Tiffany: the captioning Tiffany: the captioning happening today is already on happening today is already on howlaround. howlaround. >> it will be available -- yes? >> it will be available -- yes? >> this is Betty Siegal, thank >> this is Betty Siegal, thank you so much for all you so much for all participating and being such an participating and being such an amazing speakers and sharers of amazing speakers and sharers of fabulous experiences and information. fabulous experiences and information. We do, if you have attended We do, if you have attended lead, one of the benefits of lead, one of the benefits of attending is that you get to attending is that you get to participate on a listserv that participate on a listserv that we have run for many years. It is where we throw out we have run for many years. It is where we throw out questions to one another, our questions to one another, our peers, for guidance, advice, and information, so you need to come peers, for guidance, advice, and information, so you need to come to lead to be able to get on the to lead to be able to get on the list serve. list serve. This is my plug to come to This is my plug to come to Austin, Texas in 2017. Austin, Texas in 2017. Generally, since you asked for Generally, since you asked for an opinion, we really feel very an opinion, we really feel very strongly about the impact that strongly about the impact that these kinds of conversations can these kinds of conversations can have on us as a community. have on us as a community. We also really strongly believe, We also really strongly believe, and I think this is true when we and I think this is true when we look at the values of Kennedy look at the values of Kennedy himself, the values of service himself, the values of service and courage, that art, good art and courage, that art, good art is what we are looking for. is what we are looking for. Good art changes and shapes society. Good art changes and shapes society. And we need to be open to good And we need to be open to good art, regardless of where it art, regardless of where it comes from, who it comes from, comes from, who it comes from, and why it is coming up. and why it is coming up. So thank you for helping us identify that. So thank you for helping us identify that. Tiffany: one of the things that Tiffany: one of the things that came out for me in the day -- came out for me in the day -- >> thinking about the ways that >> thinking about the ways that I started and learning about all I started and learning about all the audience access ways and the audience access ways and accommodations. accommodations. And to take it to this level, And to take it to this level, the late -- the way the the late -- the way the relationships are built and the relationships are built and the way that we move through the way that we move through the world with the artists we are world with the artists we are working with, doing things to working with, doing things to represent them, host them, it is so much deeper and more represent them, host them, it is so much deeper and more transformative. transformative. For an institution and the For an institution and the individuals working together and individuals working together and all the humans connecting around all the humans connecting around it, that is another powerful it, that is another powerful point in all of this. point in all of this. >> I want to say something about >> I want to say something about you, Barack. you, Barack. We hired one of my colleagues, We hired one of my colleagues, who is a multidisciplinary and who is a multidisciplinary and artist -- disciplinary artist, artist -- disciplinary artist, two-stage the performance on -- two-stage the performance on -- to stage the performance on to stage the performance on Thursday night in and last night Thursday night in and last night I was texting her. I was texting her. And I looked at it and she said, And I looked at it and she said, make sure, she said, thank you make sure, she said, thank you for hiring me to stage manage for hiring me to stage manage because I learned more than I because I learned more than I gave back. gave back. And I already know, 48 hours And I already know, 48 hours later, that this has upped my later, that this has upped my art more than I thought I could. art more than I thought I could. And that was a very brief day. And that was a very brief day. Right? Right? And so, I am just saying, the And so, I am just saying, the one question I heard -- how has one question I heard -- how has this impacted organizations? this impacted organizations? Every single organization that Every single organization that we talked to about participating we talked to about participating in this day, every single arts in this day, every single arts manager said, working with an manager said, working with an artist with a disability changed artist with a disability changed them, the organization, their them, the organization, their work, it was like an exponential work, it was like an exponential leap. leap. Christine: I also think it Christine: I also think it changes the interaction with changes the interaction with audience access, when you are audience access, when you are working with disabled artists. working with disabled artists. It changes the conversation, it It changes the conversation, it opens the conversation in ways that people are not even aware opens the conversation in ways that people are not even aware of. of. Because then they are looking at Because then they are looking at the entire picture. the entire picture. >> Barack? >> Barack? Brock -- barack Brock -- barack : I forget your : I forget your name, Sarah. name, Sarah. This talks to the notion of what This talks to the notion of what happens next. happens next. Brandon was telling me about the Brandon was telling me about the ways in which they are creating ways in which they are creating learning communities, and I learning communities, and I thought, that is so incredible. thought, that is so incredible. Each community, that they still Each community, that they still milling within their own -- that milling within their own -- that they stimulate within their own they stimulate within their own community. community. I am fascinated with that idea. I am fascinated with that idea. Even with those that were not a Even with those that were not a part of this conference, because part of this conference, because that is a continuation of the conversation. that is a continuation of the conversation. So I want to affirm that, I So I want to affirm that, I wanted to shine a light on the wanted to shine a light on the notion of learning communities notion of learning communities and building that as continued conversation. and building that as continued conversation. And one of the things I always desired, because I am into And one of the things I always desired, because I am into networks, is that in this room, networks, is that in this room, there are those who have talked there are those who have talked and shared, but I have not had and shared, but I have not had the opportunity to go around the room. the opportunity to go around the room. I do not know if we have time to do that. I do not know if we have time to do that. I'm not connected necessarily to I'm not connected necessarily to a listserv, so I am wondering if a listserv, so I am wondering if there is an opportunity to talk there is an opportunity to talk to people and share who they are and where they are from. to people and share who they are and where they are from. >> one of our goals today was , >> one of our goals today was , there are people doing this work, you guys have been doing there are people doing this work, you guys have been doing it for decades. it for decades. We want to build the national network. We want to build the national network. And we wanted to have this conversation be the beginning, And we wanted to have this conversation be the beginning, but I have no brain space to but I have no brain space to figure out what is happening figure out what is happening next, or how we will build the next, or how we will build the network or what shape it will be. network or what shape it will be. Nor do I want to do that. Nor do I want to do that. Personally, myself. Personally, myself. He comes I do not know -- He comes I do not know -- because, I do not know if I am qualified to do it. because, I do not know if I am qualified to do it. My question is for you, you do My question is for you, you do not have to answer it now, but not have to answer it now, but we can post something, we can find a format to share we can post something, we can find a format to share information with you. information with you. And if you would like us to And if you would like us to share contact information with share contact information with you, let us know. you, let us know. What I am hoping, we will find a What I am hoping, we will find a way to get the word out, because way to get the word out, because doing have most e-mail addresses doing have most e-mail addresses , Tiffany? , Tiffany? Tiffany: I think we have most Tiffany: I think we have most folks. folks. I love the suggestion, the quick I love the suggestion, the quick go around the room. go around the room. Is that OK? Is that OK? David: I am cool with that. David: I am cool with that. >> Mr. -- esther grimm. >> Mr. -- esther grimm. >> gina, I am also with three >> gina, I am also with three arts. arts. Christine: make sure that you Christine: make sure that you hold the mic to your mouth. hold the mic to your mouth. Yay! Yay! >> Jocelyn, coming from the >> Jocelyn, coming from the performance side of theater, performance side of theater, acting and dancing. acting and dancing. I want to get more into perhaps I want to get more into perhaps the management side of arts, the management side of arts, working with people with his working with people with his abilities, so this was a perfect way to come and learn about abilities, so this was a perfect way to come and learn about those issues. those issues. It was very helpful today. It was very helpful today. >> where are you from? >> where are you from? >> Pittsburgh. >> Pittsburgh. >> Benjy >> Benjy blanco, at a nonprofit blanco, at a nonprofit that provides advocacy for those that provides advocacy for those with intellectual disabilities. with intellectual disabilities. I just moved back to Pittsburgh. I just moved back to Pittsburgh. I was gone for five years. I was gone for five years. Come talk to me. Come talk to me. Achieva Achieva has opened up positions and is a wonderful organization. has opened up positions and is a wonderful organization. >> I am in the Pittsburgh Symphony. >> I am in the Pittsburgh Symphony. >> I am vanya. >> I am vanya. I am a disabled performer here in Pittsburgh. I am a disabled performer here in Pittsburgh. >> Jackie Baker, Bricolage , Pittsburgh. >> Jackie Baker, Bricolage , Pittsburgh. >> David, performing artist in Pittsburgh. >> David, performing artist in Pittsburgh. >> Betty Siegal, director of the test accessibility at the John >> Betty Siegal, director of the test accessibility at the John F. Kennedy Center for performing F. Kennedy Center for performing arts in Washington DC. arts in Washington DC. >> Jessica Swanson, manager of >> Jessica Swanson, manager of disability. disability. >> Elizabeth, with the children's Museum of Pittsburgh. >> Elizabeth, with the children's Museum of Pittsburgh. >> I am Caitlin's gaffe -- >> I am Caitlin's gaffe -- scaff, here in Pittsburgh. scaff, here in Pittsburgh. >> director of arts and disability, Ireland. >> director of arts and disability, Ireland. >> Nicole, executive director of >> Nicole, executive director of the water center for the arts, the water center for the arts, 10 miles up the river. 10 miles up the river. >> Sarah from Raleigh, North Carolina. >> Sarah from Raleigh, North Carolina. I work for the city and I am the I work for the city and I am the arts coordinator. arts coordinator. >> Karina >> Karina web-based -- Karina, web-based -- Karina, based in Pittsburgh. based in Pittsburgh. The arts studio court Nader at The arts studio court Nader at the children's Museum -- studio the children's Museum -- studio coordinator at the children's coordinator at the children's Museum in Pittsburgh. Museum in Pittsburgh. >> Rebecca torres, artist and >> Rebecca torres, artist and founder and director of founder and director of backbones. backbones. >> >> Ryan Walsh, former Ryan Walsh, former development director and writing development director and writing program director at the Vermont studio Center. program director at the Vermont studio Center. I moved to Pittsburgh this week. I moved to Pittsburgh this week. >> just a personal assistant. >> just a personal assistant. >> just? >> just? >> what is your name? >> what is your name? [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] >> Christina , I work for the >> Christina , I work for the ballet theater, the director of ballet theater, the director of education and can unity -- and community engagement. education and can unity -- and community engagement. >> Vanessa, I direct all of the >> Vanessa, I direct all of the accessibility programs here at accessibility programs here at the Pittsburgh cultural trust. the Pittsburgh cultural trust. >> the accessibility and >> the accessibility and inclusion coordinator at the children's Museum. inclusion coordinator at the children's Museum. >> Brian Weatherford, >> Brian Weatherford, accessibility peer in Pittsburgh. accessibility peer in Pittsburgh. >> >> my name is Kayla, I work for my name is Kayla, I work for a dog and pony in D.C.. a dog and pony in D.C.. I am an apprentice. I am an apprentice. >> Daniel Ellison, from North >> Daniel Ellison, from North Carolina, and I teach at Duke Carolina, and I teach at Duke university on legal issues for university on legal issues for the performing arts. the performing arts. I am chair of the Durham I am chair of the Durham cultural advisory board. cultural advisory board. >> Kristin link, the director of >> Kristin link, the director of education and accessibility for education and accessibility for city theater company in Pittsburgh. city theater company in Pittsburgh. >> Claire, the director of new >> Claire, the director of new play development, also from city play development, also from city theater in Pittsburgh. theater in Pittsburgh. >> Reagan, actor, writer, >> Reagan, actor, writer, performer, based in Montana, but performer, based in Montana, but all over the place. all over the place. >> I am Erica, the associate >> I am Erica, the associate artistic director at artistic director at off-the-wall productions in off-the-wall productions in Carnegie, about seven miles from Pittsburgh. Carnegie, about seven miles from Pittsburgh. >> Sarah, the managing director >> Sarah, the managing director at off-the-wall with Erica, in Carnegie. at off-the-wall with Erica, in Carnegie. >> there have been quite a few >> there have been quite a few people that left that are not from Pittsburgh. people that left that are not from Pittsburgh. But there have been many that But there have been many that have left, to catch flights and things like that. have left, to catch flights and things like that. We started the day with 25 We started the day with 25 people registered and as of people registered and as of yesterday it was 60, so that yesterday it was 60, so that shows that there is a critical shows that there is a critical mass of interest. mass of interest. David: my thought was the idea David: my thought was the idea of the pendulum and I really of the pendulum and I really feel like there is a pendulum feel like there is a pendulum shift in terms of authenticity shift in terms of authenticity when it comes to disability, when it comes to disability, specifically in casting. specifically in casting. And I think also in terms of And I think also in terms of other inclusive ways that we are other inclusive ways that we are engaging artists. engaging artists. So I hope the conversation So I hope the conversation continues to move forward and I continues to move forward and I guess as you were saying, it has guess as you were saying, it has shifted, even if it pushes back shifted, even if it pushes back in another direction, we have in another direction, we have gone far enough that we will gone far enough that we will continue to move forward. continue to move forward. >> I am going to introduce myself. >> I am going to introduce myself. I missed the round. I missed the round. Sarah Aziz, the director of the Sarah Aziz, the director of the three arts -- the three Rivers three arts -- the three Rivers arts Festival in Pittsburgh. arts Festival in Pittsburgh. Also the coffee girl. Also the coffee girl. >> copy Savior -- >> copy Savior -- coffee savior. coffee savior. >> we have five minutes for >> we have five minutes for questions or thoughts. questions or thoughts. If anybody has a question and If anybody has a question and your brain is not much, I am your brain is not much, I am impressed -- m ush, I am impressed -- m ush, I am impressed. impressed. What do you guys think? What do you guys think? Christine: thank you for staying all day. Christine: thank you for staying all day. Just to reiterate, let's use Just to reiterate, let's use each other as resources, honestly. each other as resources, honestly. David and I are here, we do not David and I are here, we do not give you our e-mails or website, give you our e-mails or website, but it is on -- but it is on -- >> we will get everything to everyone. >> we will get everything to everyone. Christine: yes. Christine: yes. The whole point of today was to The whole point of today was to hear some of the best practices hear some of the best practices models and what is going on. models and what is going on. I think I speak for everybody that came and spoke today about I think I speak for everybody that came and spoke today about their experiences, that they their experiences, that they would probably welcome those would probably welcome those people who have questions, people who have questions, saying we are interested in what saying we are interested in what you are doing at Bricolage, can you are doing at Bricolage, can you walk us through the process? you walk us through the process? That is the one-to-one of what That is the one-to-one of what will make the change. will make the change. Even if you are a big Even if you are a big organization, if you are a large organization, if you are a large organization and your job title organization and your job title does not fit into necessarily does not fit into necessarily what we have been talking about, what we have been talking about, there are some things you can do there are some things you can do to help the conversation at your to help the conversation at your cost -- at your institution. cost -- at your institution. >> I >> I just, from a perspective as just, from a perspective as an artist, I want to say thank an artist, I want to say thank you Pittsburgh coming thank you you Pittsburgh coming thank you -- Pittsburgh, thank you lead. -- Pittsburgh, thank you lead. I feel like, really there is no national or international I feel like, really there is no national or international convening of this sort, convening of this sort, particularly for artists with particularly for artists with disabilities to have these disabilities to have these conversations and collaborate. conversations and collaborate. And it is And it is -- -- >> Without them >> Without them and their knowledge and expertise, this is what they do. and their knowledge and expertise, this is what they do. Do not forget about them. Do not forget about them. Call them, talk to them. Call them, talk to them. The alliance for inclusion in The alliance for inclusion in the arts is exactly that. the arts is exactly that. You need to take advantage of You need to take advantage of this expertise and talent. this expertise and talent. And frankly, you guys scare me you are so good. And frankly, you guys scare me you are so good. Christine: you guys. Christine: you guys. Do not give us all of the credit. Do not give us all of the credit. David: absolutely. David: absolutely. It was coming from you guys and It was coming from you guys and wanting to collaborate and wanting to collaborate and really bring the conversation forward. really bring the conversation forward. So thank you to the Pittsburgh So thank you to the Pittsburgh culture trust and also the culture trust and also the leadership at lead. leadership at lead. >> and I wanted to bring Vanessa >> and I wanted to bring Vanessa Back up, it was really anne and Back up, it was really anne and the NASA having meetings for the NASA having meetings for many months -- and Vanessa many months -- and Vanessa having meetings for many months. having meetings for many months. It was really the two of them. It was really the two of them. I am so proud. I am so proud. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE] Tiffany: I want to acknowledge Tiffany: I want to acknowledge the Pittsburgh cultural trust, the Kennedy Center, all of the the Pittsburgh cultural trust, the Kennedy Center, all of the partners that made this possible , NDA, really important conversation. partners that made this possible , NDA, really important conversation. And most of poorly, all of you. And most of poorly, all of you. Everybody that participates in these conversations, that is Everybody that participates in these conversations, that is what is all about. Thank you for coming. what is all about. Thank you for coming. I think that is it. I think that is it. Are we good? Are we good? David: I think we are done. David: I think we are done. Tiffany: have a great evening everyone. Tiffany: have a great evening everyone. [APPLAUSE] [APPLAUSE]